HRT to be sold over the counter!

Agree Silverlady always easier than seeing a GP, male or female, in any case!

I think there seem to be quite a lot of women pharmasists about now so perhaps that will help.

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

Hippie20

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

I have always backed up my statements with links Hippi20 I haven't made unsubstantiated scaremongering assertions like "osteopenia always leads to osteoporosis" or "women on HRT take better care of their health and so refer for cataracts more". As a matter of fact I don't take statins either and wouldn't recommend anyone else to unless their doctor insisted they were essential. It's not a disservice to women to warn them about the downside of something, it is considering them sensible enough and wise enough to take the decision which is right for them, in the full knowledge of all the facts and without the pressure exerted by the media and drug companies, who want us all to comply with some strange perpetually young concept of women, possibly because the idea of women who are not hormonal is a scarey one.

trisher

Hippie20

You present a lot of supposed facts which are open to misrepresentation. Say what you like most women on hrt are protected from oestrophsis which is is a leading cause in post menopausal women. You make lots of statements without sufficient data to back it up. I would suggest that satins which are routinely prescribed have a lot more side effects than hrt. Your misinformation does a great disservice to women on this site seeking advice.

I have always backed up my statements with links Hippi20 I haven't made unsubstantiated scaremongering assertions like "osteopenia always leads to osteoporosis" or "women on HRT take better care of their health and so refer for cataracts more". As a matter of fact I don't take statins either and wouldn't recommend anyone else to unless their doctor insisted they were essential. It's not a disservice to women to warn them about the downside of something, it is considering them sensible enough and wise enough to take the decision which is right for them, in the full knowledge of all the facts and without the pressure exerted by the media and drug companies, who want us all to comply with some strange perpetually young concept of women, possibly because the idea of women who are not hormonal is a scarey one.

Well said Hippie20. Trisher is a past master in the art of twisting what someone says then criticising her incorrect version of it. For example she states that I said that osteopaenia always leads to osteoporosis. I challenge her to tell us where I said that.
Many elderly women have osteopaenia which is treated to prevent it getting worse. I said it is the thin edge of the wedge but she doesn’t let that get in the way of her twisting of the truth.
She backs up her statements with links which if you care to read them you find out they say just the opposite of the point she is inventing.
trisher’s inventions are not just a disservice but an actual danger to other gransnetters.

patrish

I am 77 and still on on hrt, -decided 20 years ago not to argue with refusenik doctor.I have been buying them on the internet,and yes they are genuine and I still have a waistline and look younger than I am .

I hope to still be taking it when I'm that age.
The way I look at it, I could live for 40 more years after menopause.
Why should i spend almost half my life without the very hormones that make me female?
The only thing that replaces hormones are Hormones.
Menopace, soya milk and all the rest -that are supposed to help, are a poor substitute for actual hormones.
And this business of it being a natural process?
Natural processes can have lots of nasty side effects.
Hrt protects the heart, bones, the spine.
Women on hrt are less likely to lose height and develop dowager hump as they age, because oestrogen puts collagen back in the matrix.
And it can help stave off dementia.

Espee you said and it is the second time I have quoted it
If you allow them to disintegrate through lack of oestrogen then you will have to take a cocktail of drugs to try to maintain sufficient bone mass to prevent the downward slide into osteoporosis
This is a completely unsupported allegation which might cause real distress to anyone who has been diagnosed with Osteopenia . The ROS guidelines advise dietary supplements and weight bearing exercise may deal with the problem without any drug intervention. I have already posted this information which you have chosen to ignore because it doesn't fit your preconceptions.
If you feel my posts are a danger to other GNers then feel free to report me. Personally I think other people are quite able to read posts and make their own judgements. It's a pity you don't regard them as able o do so.

Trisher. I note you have not responded to the challenge to show where I ever stated the comments you attributed to me. You lied, I called you out and you have gone off on a tangent.

As for your latest. Did you not, on this very thread, tell us that you were diagnosed as having osteoporosis and had to take drugs to strengthen your bones? Osteopenia is simply the early stages of osteoporosis. It is a sliding scale. Once your bone density is -1 to -2.5 this is considered osteopenia, from -2.5 or below it is called osteoporosis. It is not two different conditions, just a measurement of how far down the path you are. Anyone who researches their condition understands that.
My mother died a horrible death thanks to this condition. I know what I am talking about.

I have chosen the path of using HRT to prevent this, and all the other horrible long term effects of low oestrogen e.g. vaginal atrophy, incontinence, osteoarthritis, prolapse, depression, low libido, UTIs, cataracts (thank you for reminding me of that) etc.
You clearly resent this. I will be spending more than one third of my life post menopausal. Modern medicine has given us the solution and whether or not you approve there are an increasing number of very intelligent women who have researched the subject, made a decision, and are now glowingly happy.
I don’t care how a woman decides to handle her personal menopause as long as she has access to the facts.
What I object to vehemently is people like you spouting misinformation dressed up as fact.
You are out of date, uninformed and a very dangerous person on a site like this.
I will call you out on every lie you tell on this subject so think twice before writing anything. By all means give your opinion but don’t dress up your misogynistic attitudes as fact.

Espee it. might help if you could actually read posts!
Firstly Osteopenia does NOT necessitate drug treatment. Osteoporosis DOES. I had Osteoporosis treated with targetted drugs, reduced to Osteopenia which needed weight bearing exercise and calcium and Vitamin D. I now have good bone density better than most people my age and lots of people younger than me. Most Osteopenia can be tackled the same way and that is what the ROS recommend.
I don't care what you take. I don't care what you do with your body.
I do care that you have posted several misrepresentations of what happens to people with Osteopenia and Osteoporosis and described the drug treatment recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society as a "cocktail of drugs" when it is in fact usually one targetted drug for a short period. I realise that you are still obviously very upset about your mother's death, but that is no reason to post misleading and inaccurate information. My mother lived with Osteoporosis as well which is why I sought and received the treatment I needed
When I provide information I always do so with a link so people can read it for themselves. Why you feel this is mysoginistic I have no idea. It does seem that you take any criticism of HRT personally which is rather a strange attitude to take.
I too think women should have access to facts which is why I always post links, something you are unable to do so you are in fact doing exactly what you accuse me of, presenting your opinions as fact with nothing to back them up.
There is in fact little information about the longer term effects of HRT although most information advises it should not be taken for over 10 years and taking oral medication longer term may not be advisable for anyone with a family history of strokes or of blood clots, as my mother had a DVT and an aunt had a PE I certainly wouldn't take it.
www.healthline.com/health-news/hrt-tablets-increase-risk-of-blood-clots-in-women#HRT-options-explained

About cataracts
Estrogen receptors have been detected in the eye's lens, the area that becomes cloudy and inflexible when a cataract develops. Naturally occurring (endogenous) estrogen appears to protect the eye from cataract, along with guarding cardiovascular and other body systems before menopause. Exogenous estrogens like those used in HRT do not function the same way. For example, HRT increases C-reactive protein levels, associated with cataract development in other studies. Dr. Lindblad's study also describes how alcohol and HRT may interact to raise estradiol levels, which appears to affect cataract risk.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301122326.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20consumption%20seemed%20to%20increase%20HRT's%20harmful%20effect.&text=FULL%20STORY-,An%20eight%2Dyear%20prospective%20study%20of%20more%20than%2030%2C000%20postmenopausal,who%20had%20never%20used%20HRT.

NICE has advised gps that women can in most circumstances take hrt for life which is what I can do. Not 10 years as you state. However it is preferable to have the oestrogen via a gel on your arm and a bio identical progesterone which is what I take. So another "fact" that is incorrect.

Hippie20

NICE has advised gps that women can in most circumstances take hrt for life which is what I can do. Not 10 years as you state. However it is preferable to have the oestrogen via a gel on your arm and a bio identical progesterone which is what I take. So another "fact" that is incorrect.

Hippie.
Was that combination prescribed by the NHS or did you have to go private?

trisher

About cataracts
Estrogen receptors have been detected in the eye's lens, the area that becomes cloudy and inflexible when a cataract develops. Naturally occurring (endogenous) estrogen appears to protect the eye from cataract, along with guarding cardiovascular and other body systems before menopause. Exogenous estrogens like those used in HRT do not function the same way. For example, HRT increases C-reactive protein levels, associated with cataract development in other studies. Dr. Lindblad's study also describes how alcohol and HRT may interact to raise estradiol levels, which appears to affect cataract risk.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301122326.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20consumption%20seemed%20to%20increase%20HRT's%20harmful%20effect.&text=FULL%20STORY-,An%20eight%2Dyear%20prospective%20study%20of%20more%20than%2030%2C000%20postmenopausal,who%20had%20never%20used%20HRT.

I refer you back to my previous response where I quoted from 3 of the many studies which found just the opposite, there are many more. I did give references to each of the statements.
When one study states the opposite of every other study on the subject then clearly more research is needed.

trisher

Espee it. might help if you could actually read posts!
Firstly Osteopenia does NOT necessitate drug treatment. Osteoporosis DOES. I had Osteoporosis treated with targetted drugs, reduced to Osteopenia which needed weight bearing exercise and calcium and Vitamin D. I now have good bone density better than most people my age and lots of people younger than me. Most Osteopenia can be tackled the same way and that is what the ROS recommend.
I don't care what you take. I don't care what you do with your body.
I do care that you have posted several misrepresentations of what happens to people with Osteopenia and Osteoporosis and described the drug treatment recommended by the Royal Osteoporosis Society as a "cocktail of drugs" when it is in fact usually one targetted drug for a short period. I realise that you are still obviously very upset about your mother's death, but that is no reason to post misleading and inaccurate information. My mother lived with Osteoporosis as well which is why I sought and received the treatment I needed
When I provide information I always do so with a link so people can read it for themselves. Why you feel this is mysoginistic I have no idea. It does seem that you take any criticism of HRT personally which is rather a strange attitude to take.
I too think women should have access to facts which is why I always post links, something you are unable to do so you are in fact doing exactly what you accuse me of, presenting your opinions as fact with nothing to back them up.
There is in fact little information about the longer term effects of HRT although most information advises it should not be taken for over 10 years and taking oral medication longer term may not be advisable for anyone with a family history of strokes or of blood clots, as my mother had a DVT and an aunt had a PE I certainly wouldn't take it.
www.healthline.com/health-news/hrt-tablets-increase-risk-of-blood-clots-in-women#HRT-options-explained

I may not have provided links but I have either provided photographs of the information I am quoting from e.g. the ROP info. or in the case of the cataract research I provided the reference and specified an easy way to bring up each and every reference cited.
You are clearly one of these people (I remember them well from primary school) who feels that having the last word means you’ve one.
Pathetic.

That should read ……You are clearly one of those people (I remember them well from primary school) who feels that having the last word means that you have won.

I don't regard this as some sort of competition Espee why would I? Simply a matter of posting accurate info about HRT, which is undoubtedly a treatment for certain medical conditions but isn't the fount of youth or the cure-all it is sometimes presented as. Women have been over medicated by the drug industry for donkey's years, from laudanum, through Valium and now on HRT. Questioning that has strong feminist roots and involved people like Betty Friedman www.vice.com/en/article/gqmx9j/here-lady-take-some-pills-for-your-hysteria-253

Ha ha this thread reminds me of that Nigella Lawson and Holistic nutritionist Gillian Mckeith picture!

Silverlady333

Ha ha this thread reminds me of that Nigella Lawson and Holistic nutritionist Gillian Mckeith picture!

Not sure why. Can't stand either of them.

NHS

Well I won't be posting any more threads on this forum as it has become very time consuming. As I said originally women should do their own research and make up their own minds.