Care home / nursing home fees

The home where my mother is won’t accept people unless they are self funders to begin with, although they accept LA funding later if the resident’s money runs out.
I agree with you Saggi in that medicine seems to be used to keep people alive as long as possible with little regard to their quality of life. Having said that illnesses have to be treated because it would be unethical to leave people untreated.

DON'T, whatever you do, when you are looking for a home indicate to them that your relative is a self funder - they whack the fee up by as much as £400-£500 a week - I work in the Social Care sector and have seen it time after time

‘The system is shit’

Cabbi 21 ….. I totally agree with your statement …. I wish we didn’t live so long.
Medicine seems all about keeping people alive as long as possible! For what: so those on the outside of these zoo’s can go gape at relatives who don’t want to be there….. don’t want us to be there…. where has the quality of life gone , once you’re incarcerated into these places. Not for me . My house is for my children ….I earnt it….I’ve upkept it. When my husband finially Goes into one of these places ….they can have his £1000 per month pensions….they’ll get nothing of mine . I am determined to stay in my home so they can’t take it to pay for his care. The upshot is…. my husband is deemed not to need one of these homes…. I had my third stroke last year….I have 4 prolapsed discs …I am in constant pain. I have to lift him ( 12.5 stone) of the floor at least three times a week. He won’t allow me to sleep as he constantly wanders the house with light and tv blazing! I’m shattered. His mind is going! But apparently he does not need care while I’m standing upright. I’ve been laid up with Covid 6 weeks now….still no help!! I’m on my knees! Which of course is what they want. If I need a care home and he needs a care home …. they can sell our house to pay for it! The system is shut ! I wish to hod my stroke would’ve killed me last year.

My FIL has been in a care home for over a year now and is self funding. At the moment, his house is on the market to ensure that he has enough funds to keep him there for the foreseeable future, which could be quite a while. As I understand it, there is no current law that demands that the family pay for the care when the funding is diminished. I believe that the funding situation will change in September 2023 when there will be a cap on how much you self fund, after which, the Govt. will pay for the care element, but not the accommodation and meal provision, which will still be self funded, but hopefully to a more manageable level. This is my understanding of the proposal. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will put me right.

Didn’t a certain someone promise to sort out social care? I went through all this with my mum who had dementia 20 years ago. Every member of the family had to pay up to top up her care. Now my sister has dementia and it’s been months trying to get her into the nursing home she so badly needs. It’s actually got worse in the last 20 years, probably due to pressure on places. I’m dreading when it’s my turn….

put to me…

Thank you Pammie yes it was me who put a contribution in the other thread about being a guarantor and you gave me a very nice reply there too. It is outrageous that relatives are asked to be guarantors, where would it end? You could end up losing your own house to pay your parents care fees. I was astonished when this was out to me as an option.

Had same experience with elderly relative here in Scotland...At the time you had to exhaust your savings till you only had 16k lef as that was the amount you are allowed to keep...In Scotland personal card for the elderly is free so council paid that part to the retirement home...Unfortunately or fortunately for her daughter her mum died before her house would have had to be sold to continuepaying for her care package....So glad the home she was in was amazing because it cost her a lit to stay there..

The spouse who doesn't require care isn't under any legal responsibility to make top up payments Cabbie, just as it is with any other family member.

win

If and when the new cap comes in at least people will know where they stand, just remember the cap does not cover expenses you woul occur at homelike food. It is solely care charges which count against the cap.
Never agree to pay top up fees, it is a huge commitment as prices can rise without you having a say,
You can often argue your case successfully why the loved one should not be moved. Reasons like ease of visiting, lack of transport, and the condition of the loved one. The worst situation at the ,omens is that they are discharged from hospital for assessment in a care home knowing that home probably can keep them, then moved on when they find a to 5hem not necessarily you, suitable place. You have to do your own groundwork at all times use the CQC list, which are not perfect but better than not searching before placement

The cap covers personal care and what are described as ‘hotel fees’ which cover accommodation and food. Nursing care should be free, but you need to establish this as there’s a lot of confusion about what is NHS ongoing care and what is not. And crucially, I believe the cap will not include any state benefits paid to help with care, such as disability living allowance or attendance allowance - it’s purely on the persons’ personal income and assets.

maddyone

leeds22
I had a similar experience. My mother was discharged into a lovely and very expensive care home after she broke her shoulder. She spent two weeks in hospital and then was sent to this care home at the expense of the NHS. After three months she was told she could go home or self fund. She was at this stage totally unable to go home to live, even with carers. When I spoke to the admittance manager I told her mum could probably afford to self fund for about eighteen months and I was then told that ‘the family’ could guarantee and pay after that! At £1325 a week! I gave her very short shrift about that. I said what if I or my husband need care later in life? Who would pay if we spent whatever money we had on mum’s care? Was I supposed to remortgage my house to pay for it?
We found another lovely home for mum where the LA will hopefully pick up the cost when mum’s money is gone. What a cheek to suggest we pay.

This very subject was discussed on a recent thread. There is no legal obligation for someone’s relatives to fund their care, and yet there are more and more people being asked by care homes if they would like to act as guarantors for their relative when self funding runs out and top up is required for LA funding. What most people don’t realise is that there is no legal way out of a guarantor agreement - once you’ve done it, you’re stuck with it and it’s a recipe for financial ruin.

My mum is 91 and has dementia. She’s lives with myself and partner in our home for some years and it’s been hard work but very rewarding, and I’m hoping that she will end her days here with us. Her condition has deteriorated and the Dementia has affected her appetite - I’m advised that this is a sign of the condition advancing and she may only have months left. Our GP has put us in touch with the Local Authority to discuss options for home care if we’re finding it difficult to cope nearer the end, but something I found out the other day, quite by chance, is that Dementia qualifies for hospice care in the final months of life, at no cost to the patient or their family. To qualify, the patient has to have a terminal diagnosis and in the last few months of life - their time can be split between hospice care and home as needed. Not once has this option ever been mentioned in any of our enquiries about respite and home care. The other thing I didn’t realise is that care homes routinely charge 20% more to self funding residents to cover the cost of those who rely on council funding. A relative was charged £4000 in a care home who charged LA residents £3000 for the same facility - this was the reason they gave. So in the course of 12 months, self funders who may have to sell a property to fund their care, are stumping up £12000 a year in some cases, effectively to subsidise community care. Not sure how I feel about this TBH.

leeds22
I had a similar experience. My mother was discharged into a lovely and very expensive care home after she broke her shoulder. She spent two weeks in hospital and then was sent to this care home at the expense of the NHS. After three months she was told she could go home or self fund. She was at this stage totally unable to go home to live, even with carers. When I spoke to the admittance manager I told her mum could probably afford to self fund for about eighteen months and I was then told that ‘the family’ could guarantee and pay after that! At £1325 a week! I gave her very short shrift about that. I said what if I or my husband need care later in life? Who would pay if we spent whatever money we had on mum’s care? Was I supposed to remortgage my house to pay for it?
We found another lovely home for mum where the LA will hopefully pick up the cost when mum’s money is gone. What a cheek to suggest we pay.

If and when the new cap comes in at least people will know where they stand, just remember the cap does not cover expenses you woul occur at homelike food. It is solely care charges which count against the cap.
Never agree to pay top up fees, it is a huge commitment as prices can rise without you having a say,
You can often argue your case successfully why the loved one should not be moved. Reasons like ease of visiting, lack of transport, and the condition of the loved one. The worst situation at the ,omens is that they are discharged from hospital for assessment in a care home knowing that home probably can keep them, then moved on when they find a to 5hem not necessarily you, suitable place. You have to do your own groundwork at all times use the CQC list, which are not perfect but better than not searching before placement

What happens when the first spouse is in need of care? I know they will be assessed as individuals, but what happens if a top up is needed? If the other spouse pays it there may be no money left if and when they need care themselves. How is that right?

The whole care system is broken .....care homes now saying they will not be able to keep running when the new 'cap' on money you are allowed to keep comes in ......I had to put my late husband into one in his later stages of life ...cost me Euro 4,000 a month in France which I was able luckily to pay through an inheritance, or I have no idea what would have happened ! ONE really good thing about France is that throughout your working life you pay a lot of deductions per week/month from salary ...including an amount for your possible long term care, your pension (currently over E2,000 a month for retirees) your health care and taxes ....they moan about this but I really think it is time the UK had a similar scheme ...i e my neighbour had a mother in the same care home paying only 1,000 Euro a month .......I know the idea of paying for health care extra, as well as long term old age care, is anathema to most of my friends in the UK ...but you get what you pay for ! My late father was in a residential (not care) flat ...complained bitterly that because he had sold his house, he had to pay for everything ...taxis to the lunch club, a cleaner, decorator, etc etc when 'him upstairs gets it all for nothing cos he spent all his money;...............how fair is that ! I have written to MP's etc etc but all they say is Social care is being reviewed ! oh yes...............exactly when ? I guess the review will include a one off payment of £15,000 to enable the aged to go to Dignitas .......... and as you say, WHEN all the money you have has gone, how are you supposed to pay for your own care if you need it !

When I was looking for care homes the SW told me that 'the family' would probably have to pay a top of fee. I said 'you mean me?' and she backed off. Another SW was much more helpful and my Mum was happy in the home we found and which took LA rates when Mum's money ran out. I couldn't afford to pay a top up fee and still have money left for my own future care.

My husband had power of attorney for his aunt. When she went into a care home, she had a certain amount of savings and a bank work pension which paid the fees initially plus her state pension of course. Once her flat was sold, my husband bought an annuity to cover the care home fees (plus inflation) for the rest of her life (which was about 5 years). He arranged it through a Saga financial advisor (who was very helpful) and I think the annuity was with Aviva. It seemed expensive at the time but it proved to be money well spent. She had more than broken even by the time she died. Not that Auntie knew anything about the arrangements in place to pay for her care.

My sister has been in a good but expensive nursing home since her stroke seven years ago. She had £300,000 in savings - all gone. After a huge struggle to get rid of her tenant, we at last managed to sell her house in February. For a year and four months the home had no fees from us, but they knew the situation. Our debt of over £100,000 has now been paid off. Should all the money from the house sale be used up (unlikely, as she is in end of life care) I know they would let her stay regardless of the LA amount.

The critical thing is quality. Everyone, whatever their financial circumstances should have quality care. Sadly that does not always happen.

When I was working I knew several cases where the family had to move their relative into a cheaper care home once the LA picked up funding.
Our Council had a handbook of care homes and the opening blurb clearly stated that this is what would happen if you chose a more expensive setting.
Most councils used to block buy beds in care homes at a favourable rate to ensure there was availability, I don’t know if this still happens.
It’s not easy navigating the system.

The whole system is a disgrace.
My mum chose to go into a care home after Dad died. It was lovely and she had a new lease of life, with no worries about where the next meal was coming from. Sadly she only lasted 6 months, as she died after a short illness. I don't know what would have happened if her money ran out. It was never discussed.
I guess if I need care my savings will not last long and I do not know what will happen after that. I dont want my family to be burdened. I wish we did not all live so long.

My mother’s care home is lovely. It was purpose built and is ideal for the purpose. We looked at some others but they were horrible and despite our difficult relationship I wouldn’t have put my mother in any of them. We loved the one she’s in from our first contact. Everyone is friendly, the staff are good, there are lots of lovely activities every day, but mum rarely goes to them. All the rooms are lovely and en-suite. Unfortunately mum can no longer use her bathroom as she has to have a bedpan instead and bed baths rather than showers. I cannot find it in my heart to wish long life to her as she now is physically, nothing to do with our difficult relationship. It is very expensive at £1225 per week, and that’s a special offer. We managed to get her in under a special offer. The normal price is £1350 per week. We have been told that when her own money runs out the LA will most likely fund her where she is as they don’t like to move old people when they’re settled and the home have said although the LA will pay less they are unlikely to not accept whatever the LA offer. However it’s not written in stone and we cannot totally guarantee it.

I agree Witzend my Mum was in such a specialist dementia care home for 7/8 years, then a nursing home for 2/3 before she died. Sadly the dementia home, which was lovely, could not provide nursing care.
It came at a price, obviously, roughly £500k for 10 years.