For the millionth time - “advising ACs”

Ex dil should look for another job that allows her to support herself and her son.

It is clear past decisions did not work out but the past does not define the future - your son and ex dil need to think of a plan to be financially independent and coparent

Ex-DIL is with us because her full time salary from a nonprofit job would in no way allow her to live and support self and son. This because she liquidated her savings when she insisted, a year after GS was born, that they move across country to CA to pursue her screenwriting aspirations. That didn’t pan out. DS also liquidated his savings - after getting out of hospital he was not ready and then unable to find work. So they returned to the east coast and commenced working again but could never quite catch up; he lost an excellent job due to COVID but got limited unemployment. When DH died we decided we needed to pool resources and move together. I dare say when they first met and he had a good and steady income from teaching, her dreams were more supportable. What they didn’t anticipate was his mental health crisis. I do question if his seeking another degree and avoiding doing mindless work just to garner a paycheck are avoidance techniques and if his pursuit of the jobs for which he’s applied and been rejected are poor choices or self-fulfilling negative prophecies.

OP

Can you afford the whole mortgage on your own?

Why does your exdil live with you?

What if exdil decides to smart up, lose the dead weight and raise her child with better role models - can you manage to keep enabling your son on your own?

Believe it or not, employers understand employees have family, health issues, etc and they all make it work.
Nobody is free of complexities and we all make it work as adults.

I doubt your son became the way he is overnight, I would seriously examine what your role is in this situation and set your son for success in the world

Do you feel that his mental ill health is still a concern? It sounds as though you believe that it is and that is why you are supporting him in ways that are not appropriate to his age and skills.

If he is hoping to go into social work - which is a hugely stressful job in every possible way - then he might do well to start "toughening up" a bit now by taking some responsibility for his family. I am not at all minimising mental illness, nor saying that people who have suffered mental ill health should not go into social work; but I do feel that if he is not well enough to be earning some money and recognising his duties as a father, then he really is going to find social work a very hard road.

I am sorry that you are in this difficult situation with him. I can understand that as his mother you are striving not to do anything that might trigger another breakdown, but some gentle nudges in the direction of taking some financial responsibility might not be out of order.

HannahLoisLuke I absolutely agree with you. Given he has mental health problems, if he is going to undertake further study, he should make sure it is a for a job that he can cope with. I would say that social work is far more stressful than teaching. And I really wonder whether this studying and doing unpaid work is displacement work to avoid having to face up to the world, full stop.

He clearly needs further counselling and therapy, but eventually he need to realise that he cannot continue as he is and has to earn a living. A undemanding job like working in a supermarket may actually be the best way forward, strarting with a job that has clear hours of work, pay and not much responibility and he can gradually work from there, to another career or even one in supermarket managment.

I’m wondering if Social Work is going to be the right choice for someone who suffers with depression?
Or will it just lead to another case of unsuitable job so study for another degree? Is this middle aged man aiming to spend his whole life as a perpetual student, while living off the toil of others?
Shame on him.

nanamar When I started studying for my MSc, I was virtually a single mother for half the year. DH's then job kept him from home most of the summer months. he came and went at short notice for indefinite periods of time.

I was lucky to have a part time job, school hours only. My job was flexible so I did extra hours in term time, shorter ones in the holidays, when I would sign the chidren up for courses at the nearby sports centre. I would deliver them half an hour before classes started. when parents and children were already there and changing. Go to work do three hours work and collect them half an hour late, by which time they had changed and were ready for home.

One day a week I went up to London, as my course was a day release course. I paid a friend to look after them, give them breakfast, take them to school and look after them afterwards. Universities have ten week terms and it was a 2 year course, so I was home most days to do the school run. I studied in the car between leaving work and collecting the chldren from school, I got up an hour early to do an hours study before I got the children up. Lobger hours of study at the weekend.

Yes, it was hard work and difficult and if I had known what I was letting myself in for before I started, I might not have done it, but I am glad I did. It certainly helped me get better jobs. I had had several interviews when I was asked whether my professional institute membership had been gained by qualification or experience, and when I said 'experience', I could see this was a negative point. Once I could say 'qualification', the opportunities opened up.

I think they would read between the lines on this CV and question commitment and the ability to cope with stress. As an employer I have looked at many CVs over the years and it’s what they don’t say that’s interesting. Paid employment followed by a gap, part time study and unpaid work would raise questions. I believe this man is unrealistic in his expectations. If he had to resign from teaching I don’t rate his chances of handling social work and I think he has to confront this.

Comments from those of you who worked whilst getting a degree are on point - I did as well as did he when he got his masters in education. Comments from those of you who’ve struggled with depression are so encouraging - yes, keeping occupied and having a purpose are essential to managing this condition. Advice to tell him to get a “real job,” albeit he is doing some paid work, prevails. I’d love comments from those mums out there who’ve had to do so and done it and how they’ve done it and how it all turned out.

I am absolutely sure as my husband was at the top of his game in HR when he retired that an employer is looking for experience or transferable skills when looking to recruit. They are less interested in looking to see if he was being paid for the job. He is still giving advice to young people within his field and he can't state enough that when applying for a job you give the employer examples of your experience based on their requirements. I have never seen an employer ask for paid experience!

Needs to stop wasting time getting another degree (what a bloody excuse!) go and get a job that pays and support his kids and out of roof over their heads. To rely on you and the ex is so wrong I can’t believe you’ve let him get away with it. Tell him pay up or get out!

And that sort of achievement impresses a potential employer far more than sitting at home studying part time whilst doing voluntary work and taking no responsibility for paying one’s way. I have already said that I studied for my professional qualifications whilst working full time and looking after a home. If I’m harsh it’s because I worked hard to get where I did and honoured my obligations to employer and family at the same time and take a dim view of someone who is happy to be kept by his mother and ex wife and for his child also to be kept by them. Oh, and I have suffered from clinical depression for decades too but found the discipline of work an excellent supplement to the medication.

While I did post-grad study I had 3 jobs. One was shelf stacking in a supermarket at night. One was teaching part time. The other was part time work as a cleaner. In school holidays I replaced the teaching with work in an accounts department.

It's doable. If he wants it to be.

Since everyone of my family, DH, DS, DD and I, have juggled study for further degrees with earning our living, I have very little sympathy for someone in his situation who isn't doing something, even part time work in a supermarket, which is what DS did to finance his PhD.

In three weeks time we go to DD's graduation. She has got a 2;1 in science and technology from the Open University. She has no family, but, for seven years, juggled a demanding shift working job to pay her mortgage and living expenses, with studies in physics, maths and associated subjects to get the result she finally received.

Her ability to combine work and studies over such a long time has paid off and has catapulted her up the career ladder. But it was her determination to keeping both work and study that did it.

It sounds as though it could well be too stressful and not a good choice for someone mentally fragile.

The job market in the US is begging for employees in the several sectors, with hiring bonuses and new raised minimum salary - age does not matter

Yes, the US government provides a monthly pension for disabilities but it is super hard to get, take months and many appeals to be granted
If he is able to volunteer - I doubt very much he can qualify.

Sadly to say that he picked a study subject that is terribly underpaid, stressful and with high rates of burnout and abandoning it within a few years.

Why did he do that with his current mental conditions? It makes no sense, he will find himself in a pickle in the near future

I sympathize with him very much in the mental health issues but he needs get himself together.
OP won't always be there to bubble him from the world and avoid a crisis

He is in his 40s with a dependent while behaving like a teenager.

The thing is, they're so desperate for social workers, he's guaranteed a job upon graduation. However, based on the experiences of friends that are social workers, workloads are enormous, the work can be harrowing and it requires many extra hours of work in the evenings/weekends.

Hopefully it won't be too much for him (emotionally as well as quantity of work).

With all due respect to GSM and Grandetante, the OP has said that her son is training in Social Work, not academia, and the work he is doing for the voluntary sector (which he is trying to get paid for) will enhance his CV, thus make him more employable in the sector in which he wants to work. He is obviously not resistant to work per se, he is working towards a better future. He has also tried to get a desirable job but has been rejected which might speak volumes about his robustness if he has been deterred by this but does show that he is not anti working.

I agree grandtante. I rather suspect that the part time study and voluntary work are a means of staying at home and avoiding looking for a paid job.

It is hard to get a job once you are over forty and very hard to get one if you have health issues of any kind, or to feel confident that you can actually manage the job.

So I see you DS' point of view.

What I see even more clearly is your ex-DIL's! It sounds to me as if your son is contributing sweet fanny adams, pardon my French, to his son's support and /or his own for that matter.

If he is both studying for a degree and working in a voluntary capacity, he is obviously fit enough to put oneof these two things on the back burner and get a paid job.

Is his new degree likely to "enhance his employability"? Which job centre employee thought that ghastly phrase up?

Unless he is training to do a job that no-one wants to do and where the rate of situations vacant is astronomical, studying for a degree will not improve his chances.

Why not?

Because academics are not wanted by anyone except academic institutions that cannot possibly employ us all. (Been there, done that.)

Everyone else is employed on the grounds of a really good CV and work experience relevant to the job they are seeking.

I am full of sympathy for those who gave up teaching because they no longer could cope with it, but believe me, that is the last thing he wants to tell a prospective employer. It demonstrates that he cannot cope with stress - and few work places are without stress.

On balance, your ex. DIL is right - her ex needs a job, not any job, but any job that will not increase his tendency to depression and that will give him a living wage and help maintain his son.

Leave her to say all this, and refuse to get involved in the discussion apart from closing down the branch of the Bank of Mum and Dad that you are currently the Manager of.

Otherwise, it rather sounds as if your generosity is going to land you all in the River Tick sooner rather than later.

Hi, I have mental health problems, bipolar, PTSD, anxiety. I used to work, but since 2013 I've been unable to work, I do have other medical problems which contribute to my not being able to work, and I am fortunate enough to be entitled to state benefits.

I don't know if benefits are available in US but if he's not able to work yet, could that be an option? Also, if you are contributing half of the child costs on his behalf, and half of the other costs plus providing accomodation for your DinL, she actually is not out of pocket, so your DS and his earning is your business.

If your DL and his X split up under normal circumstances, they would contributing 50/50 and she would be using her other 50% to cover her remaining expenses. Maybe she should quieten down.

As for your son, do you as a psych believe he is fit to work at this moment in time?

Is it "enabling" him or is it protecting his mental health following a break down, the loss of his father and the other pressures he has faced? The fact hat many of us have juggled studying and working whilst bringing up a family doesn't mean that it is right for this young man. Some people are just more fragile than others.
That said, it does seem that he needs to have a plan about how to make the step to paid employment. I think that having a timeline would be the way forward but also, maybe helping him search for paid work in the area he enjoys. We are a long time working in this life so really the best thing, particularly where mental health issues are involved, is to find something we have the capacity to enjoy.
If we are going to bandy the word "enable" around, perhaps the focus should be positive enablement with strategies to assist this young man back into a more independent role.

So sorry that went before I had corrected my spelling, I was just thinking as a mother you just don’t want him back in hospital and it must be difficult the line drawn to help him face his responsibilities on the one hand and pressurising him and risk the reoccurrence of mental health issues on the other. Good luck.

One to one tutoring either face to face or online may well be the way to go .
There are a myriad of companies that are employing people to train others via media such as Teams or Zoom. I recently had some training by two lovely ladies that both had been cabin crew for BA !
The other thing would be to enquire about supply teaching where in many schools it is more a supervisory job than actually teaching.
Exam invigilator ? Needed right now and relatively well paid for the task!

Of course he’s content- you and his ex-wife are financing him. What incentive does he have to find gainful employment?