AIBU? Hiding money to obtain benefits.

Georgesgran

I don’t know if that was for me Yammy or the OP. I’ve definitely made my feelings on the matter known to her and now she lives in the backside of beyond, contact is minimal.
What is almost worse is that despite loads of vacancies for work around here - neither will apply for them, so why are benefits just continued, week after week - actually year after year, as neither has had any sort of job lasting more than a few months! One started up a business, defrauded HMRC and got a slapped wrist and continued to get benefits paid!

Some years ago now, but same with 2 perfectly able adult children of an ex colleague of mine. Turned down jobs because they only wanted a particular type of niche job, (for which they had no qualifications or experience) or because ‘I’m not working for minimum wage!’ (despite having no CV or track record) or, ‘I’m not participating in the capitalist system!’ (but happy to take benefits paid for by those who do), or , ‘There aren’t any jobs - the Poles have taken them all.’ Which ‘justified’ not bothering to look for or apply for any.

I found it very hard to understand how they were simply allowed to go on refusing to work, year after year.

MissAdventure

Because that is the system.
It's a total fallacy that there is this group of people who never get questioned and just stick their hands out to have them filled with freebies.

So you could be questioned as to why you perhaps had an exotic honeymoon a quarter of a century before your partner became ill? Surely that’s a waste of resources to investigate financial transactions way before the period in question.

In the case I mention, the person was still working at the time period being investigated! Why should they have spent their money as they wished?

I don't think there is a group who just get given freebies. My objection is to people having to justify how they spend their own money if they have saved it till later life, and have it taken away of they need care, whereas those who spend as they go may still be investigated but if they have no money they get it free.

When these discussions crop up I often feel as though people think I resent those who do get care free, and that is not true. I resent the fact that the frugal have to pay.

Perhaps if we all want to know why, we should be casting our eyes towards people like the ones who syphon off their money and fraudulently claim benefits.

Because that is the system.
It's a total fallacy that there is this group of people who never get questioned and just stick their hands out to have them filled with freebies.

Why should anyone have to justify why they bought something years before any illness was on the horizon?

People with no money can and are subject to deprivation of assets investigations.

They aren't, obviously going to be trusted any more than the next person when they say they have no money.

Exactly, Doodle. He had early-onset dementia, too, so they were never able to enjoy any retirement together. Not much of a reward for working all you life. ?

It was humiliating especially when she was accused of deliberately getting rid of assets, because they’d had a conservatory built - several years before her Dh even developed dementia!
Horrible.

This is the main aspect of means testing that makes me so against it. Why should 'ordinary people' not be able to enjoy the fruits of their labours without risking having it taken away pound for pound? Someone who could afford the high cost of a care home doesn't have to go through that, and those who have spent all their money as they earned it are not accused of deprivation of assets and get free care.

Even if the conservatory had been built to make your friend's life more comfortable when her husband went into care, why is that seen as deprivation of assets when going on expensive holidays throughout your life and having no savings as a result is not?

SporeRB

A few months after MIL was admitted into a residential home many years ago, the manager at the home told us that we should do what most people do, declare MIL’s state pension but not her private pension.

So there is a lot of fiddling going on at every level.

I don’t know how they’d get away with that. In Scotland, at least, you have to declare everything if you ask for any help towards care home fees. A friend whose Dh is now in a dementia unit has had Social Services go through their finances with a fine tooth comb. It was humiliating especially when she was accused of deliberately getting rid of assets, because they’d had a conservatory built - several years before her Dh even developed dementia!

Bragging is what police and authorities are always on the watch for. If ever you read crime reports, the number of times, the miscreant is caught because they couldn't stop themselves bragging about getting away with whatever their crime was, anything from theft to murder, is remarkably high.

It was extremely foolish of the OP's "friend" to tell her about the fraud. She has put the OP in a bad ethical position whereby the friendship will now suffer.

If you have something to hide the less people you tell the better. Bragging to relatives/friends/neighbours is asking to be reported because you are "rubbing their nose in it."

Anyone who declares a state pension but not a private one will soon be caught up with these days. All pension companies and pension providers have to make a return to the Inland Revenue every year and those together with income from any other source, dividends, building societies are run through the computer against benefit claimes etc.

Why do you think so few of us have to fill in tax returns these days? It is because, in my case as an example, details of my state pension occupational pension, interest on any savings I have and dividends on shares are all fed through to HMRC automatically and they can calculate my tax code automatically.

I helped people who for one reason or another had not declared all their income to the HMRC, It came back and bit them, even when it was not intentional. Of course all of them said it was unintentional.

If you read Allsort's later post Luckygirl you'll see that her friend's life style wasn't possible with the chronic pain she was claiming benefits for.

We had a friend who don't ask me how, claims disability for a bad back and even managed to get a disabled parking permit!! He walks for miles and spends hours on an exercise bike at home.

I hope you didn’t go along with it.

A few months after MIL was admitted into a residential home many years ago, the manager at the home told us that we should do what most people do, declare MIL’s state pension but not her private pension.

So there is a lot of fiddling going on at every level.

silverlining48

Surely people requiring personal care due to a physical condition which can be fir years get it without question,
A brain disease which can attack anyone, old or young, requires similar support.
Until the 60/70s people with dementia were in long term nhs hospital wards, then councils took over and in the 80 s these were sold to private companies. As was the domiciliary care.

The owners of my mothers home, together with their children, all drove luxury cars with frequent exotic holidays. At up to £2000 per week there has to be profit in that.

Quite!

How kind.

It’s the person receiving the inheritance who is responsible for informing HMRC but solicitors often do it for them.

Solicitors are obliged to tell HMRC of anyone who receives an inheritance - I know because they told me when I had one which sadly had to use to pay off a big debt because I had become unable to work due to illness - they will catch up with her eventually!!

You can only really evade tax with cash these days, if you do get lots of cash - from rental or market stalls not easy to spend it on a large scale without it getting noticed. There is the “black economy” run by criminals and smugglers, I’m sure nobody on Gransnet would want to get involved with that.

Germanshepherdsmum

There are legal means of avoiding income tax on property rentals but they’re complex. If someone is simply pocketing rent and not declaring it, they can be found out. HMRC, like the police but unlike the general public, have access to a list of property owners in England and Wales maintained by the Land Registry and the properties those people own. Local authorities and utility companies also have records. People might get away with it for a while but their affairs are not so far beneath the radar as they might think.

How often are they found out, though? I do wonder - especially in the case of ‘slumlords’, cramming people into unsavoury/unsafe properties and taking rents in cash.

IMO it’s high time all landlords were obliged to be registered with their local council. At present AFAIK this happens in relatively few areas.

Sago said in a later post My friends son is looking after the money!
She is booking lovely holidays and possibly buying a holiday chalet, he just gives her what she asks for.

Sorry, should have read the whole thread first

Sago actually says She told me she has given the money she inherited from her father to her son so she can continue to claim benefits.

Does this mean she has given it to her son as a gift or so that he can hide it for her.

yes, my bil was a senior person, chasing fraudulent claims. He and others got a great deal of satisfaction from that job. Many clues come from behaviour and lifestyle.