AIBU? Hiding money to obtain benefits.

It has always baffled me that we spend so much more time and money catching those who commit benefit fraud than we do on tax evasion which is 10 times as much.

Especially when the benefits do at least go back into our economy

Benefit fraud carries high penalties, even prison sentences in some cases, and so it should.

In you position I would report her. You say that she's a friend......just imagine if she gets caught by neigh reported by someone else and she implicates you stating you helped her claim and filling in the forms.......just saying.

I don't suppose the subject of OP is a generous donor to the Conservative Party varian or any of the other fraudsters who've been mentioned on this thread.

We should clamp down on benefit fraud, but also tax fraud (which is probably a much bigger problem) and the government should be chasing up furlough fraud and any other fraud which has raided the taxpayers pocket.

Unfortunately some of the fraudsters may just possibly be generous donors to the Conservative Party so perhaps they just wont bother.

I would rather have funds to pay for my care than be restricted to wherever the local Authority or NHS can afford to place me. But I do agree that the system is unfair, more so than the issues around means-tested benefits.

Another point is that people who have spent every penny on luxuries throughout their life will get their care funded, whereas someone who has been frugal and so has savings will not.
But that is another thread.
What the OP has raised is Benefit Fraud and there are no two ways about it.

I'm afraid that I would report anyone who is defrauding the benefits system.

What Sago's friend is doing is benefit fraud; she inherited money which would make her self-supporting, instead of which she has concealed the money by giving it her son.

People who own their houses and have savings keep them in the hope their family will inherit but with the knowledge that they may well all go to fund care and care home fees in their old age, as happened to my parents . They would have been disgusted by such dishonest behaviour.

A friend's husband boasted openly at a dinner party that he had hidden his father's £60,000 savings in an offshore account so that when he went into a nursing home he would not pay fees giving ; his scheme for inheriting the money backfired because his father died shortly afterwards and the inland revenue pursued him for attempted fraud.

Nothing people do surprises me. Some have values that are definitely not mine.
I could not live with my conscience if I did that.

It isn’t right Kitty. Dementia is a brain disease which can happen to anyone and should be considered as a medical condition because that is what it is.

There are grey areas though volver. Dementia is not classed as a medical condition as far as getting care paid for is concerned. Other conditions attract funding.

That is surely not right.

It would be fraud grandtsnte because she has been left money (or were she to win the pools) )this would take her out of the benefit system.
Giving it to her son is intentionally defrauding the state. That is Us.

OK, still being devil's advocate then...

The next time we have a thread about people not wanting to sell their homes when they go into care, because they want to keep their assets to hand on to their children, I'll mention this thread.

Posters seem to think its OK to live off the taxpayer and not have to give up your assets if you're in care, but living off the the taxpayer and not living off your assets is not OK if you're not in care.

That's a convoluted sentence. ? I'm not talking about the law as it stands, I'm talking about morals.

Giving away an inheritance , or savings, in order to claim or to keep on claiming benefits is called deprivation of assets and the claimant will be treated as if they still have the capital. There are all sorts of checks going on, and the OPs friend will eventually get caught and have to repay.
It is possible to report someone anonymously and that is what I would do.

Incidentally I do from time to time read comments on here about Benefits which are not entirely correct.
If in doubt, consult Age UK or Citizens Advice. ( Not DWP ).

grandtanteJE65 No. If she has money she is meant to use it first and foremost for her own upkeep. If it is known that she had assets that she could have used to support herself instead of claiming benefits, but chose to give them away, then she will be considered to be defrauding the benefits system, just as those disposing of assets in order to get their care paid for.

At best her benefits will be scaled down as if she still had the money and they will also be reduced to claim back the money she received that she was not entitled to.

Just being devil's advocate...

But is this really benefit fraud?

If she has given the money to her son for his use, then she does not have any benefit of it herself, and is thus surely entitled to receive benefits.

If she has put the money into her son's account, expecting to have it doled out to her again, at need, then I agree it is a despicable thing to do.

Volver Quite simply, what she is doing is illegal and fraudulent. There are legal ways to pass money on during our lives. Even then, even if you have passed money on by a legal method. If your local authority believe that you passed money on by a legal method in order to avoid paying care fees, that transfer can be declared null and void and your LA will reduce any payment they pay by the amount you gave away.

This could mean that you need care but your LA will pay nothing towards it because they will expect you to reclaim the money from those you gave it to or for them to pay your fees directly themselves.

Georgesgran

I don’t know if that was for me Yammy or the OP. I’ve definitely made my feelings on the matter known to her and now she lives in the backside of beyond, contact is minimal.
What is almost worse is that despite loads of vacancies for work around here - neither will apply for them, so why are benefits just continued, week after week - actually year after year, as neither has had any sort of job lasting more than a few months! One started up a business, defrauded HMRC and got a slapped wrist and continued to get benefits paid!

It was for Sago I apologise if you thought it was you I was inept where I put my answer sorry.

Volver, you are right of course - but sometimes we should be grateful for our good fortune and not just be grabby and selfish.
We had a tiny income for years and it was topped up with what I think was then called "working families tax credit" - it made a huge difference to how we managed on a day to day basis. We also had a rent rebate. When my mum died and we suddenly paid our own rent and had no "help" and then coincidentally got well paid jobs I felt happy to contribute to someone like us.
I was so grateful in those earlier difficult years I think we should all pay up properly so that those less fortunate can live a little. It us a privilege to pay taxes I think.
Now I think we should pay much more to be honest.

*
You cannot get any of the means-tested benefits (income-related Employment and Support Allowance, income-based Jobseeker's Allowance, Income Support, Housing Benefit or Universal Credit) if your capital is .... OVER... £16,000, this is called the upper capital limit.
if you do Have *OVER the £16,000 a small amount is deducted for each £1000 over the £16,000'''''
For PIP or personal independence payment

There is no savings limit for PIP - you can have as much money in the bank as you like. There is also no limit on your income - you can still claim PIP if you have a regular income.

I could understand people giving children money now rather than having to pay inheritance tax. But not to claim benefits. That's just wrong, illegal and greedy.

Smileless2012

Morally and legally wrong Yammy; it's fraud.

Yes your right it is fraud I think I was not thinking, thank you for confirming. I wouldn't condone it but it seems a lot of people do it and tell about it, in fact I think some are quite proud.

Georgesgran

Don’t get me started Bea65
My DD2 suffered a stroke when she was 12 and left a full-time wheelchair user with other problems. I was turned down for carers allowance, appealed and was turned down again!
I could write a book on the injustices, but I had to learn to channel my energy into helping her - rather than wasting time on anger. Rant over. X

Oh I am sorry - yes we DO have to jump through hoops so how these people get away with it is totally beyond me?

Georgesgran the thing with Carer's Allowance is that they will take the income off your daughter potentially anyway, which is what they have done with me .....

BUT and I don't know if you are all aware, once we have jumped through those hoops the Local Authority then takes what benefits we have to pay for any care that we might get ... so SCOPE in 2019 said that the average disabled person has excess costs of £570 a month. We don't even get that much, but the LA takes that money we need in order to provide services we need to help us 'exist' .... Thousands of disabled people have actually had bailiffs round/been taken to court and become criminals for non payment of care charges, which they just cannot afford. Some have taken their own lives because of it. Just disgusting ..... I was fortunate because I am 'with it' but many people aren't and are being taken advantage of, not knowing there are things that can be done. I was asked to pay almost £200 a WEEK for a 30 min daily wash and 4 hours a week of help around the house. I sent loads of income and expenditure spreadsheets which they ignored, showing that if i were to pay it, I would be in deficit every month by around £500 once I had accounted for my mortgage and bills etc. Eventually I got a home visit financial assessment and with my Disability Related Expenditure (which they do not tell you about!) it went down to £0, thank heavens or I would have been in a terrible mess. They have just assessed my friend and not told her she can offset some costs, which is just awful.

I hope your daughter is ok and has her full entitlement of PIP or DLA and she isn't being stripped of all her money?

volver My friends son is looking after the money!
She is booking lovely holidays and possibly buying a holiday chalet, he just gives her what she asks for.

I’m currently taking a tea break from work so I can pay my taxes, perhaps I will be contributing to the wraparound decking she’s got her eye on. ?

OK, we always need a little voice to play devil's advocate.

We have many many posts and threads saying how people who have money to leave to their children shouldn't have to have it taxed, or sell their houses, because everybody wants to leave something to their children. So they expect the state to fund them even though they have assets or money in the bank.

Isn't the friend just passing on her money while she is still alive, rather than waiting until she needs care, or until she's gone?