Are covid jabs useless?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I am not sure I believe that medical science knows best because medical science so often disagrees.

I currently have an open wound that the surgeon who did the operation said needs dressing daily. The xxx dressing keeps coming off so in the end i suggested to the nurse that we just leave it off, she sucked her teeth, said 'surgeons in structions'. Then she said, 'Of course some surgeons believe that wounds like this should not be dressed but should be just left to heal, but with careful hygiene. So that is what I am now doing. Two respectable medical opinions that oppose each other. I chose the one that was best for my purposes.

We are stuck, we either trust the official advice we are given in any circumstance or we look for the opposite view from an equally respectable source and make our own decisions.

The problem is that we have been brought up to believe that science is right or wrong, no grey areas. Science has always admitted the possiblity of future knowledge, but has always been uncomfortable with equally respectable alternatives. We need to accept that science too has grey areas.

I too have done some reading about the effects of the vaccinations. It seems that the protection from the omicron virus does fade in time which is why the vulnerable are being offered so many boosters. I am due to have my fifth vaccination next week.

I am totally on the side of believing that medical science knows best. It seems positive to me that the covid vaccination prevented millions from dying or becoming seriously ill.
That doesn't mean there weren't any. There are always exceptions in every scenario.
I would need some really scientific evidence before I think otherwise.

The problem with reducing it to statistics is that they can be manipulated to prove anything. I believe scientific reports rather than what my hairdresser says, but because all the people I know personally, who have been vaccinated, had Covid and recovered, its easy to be convinced that vaccines work. If I had personal knowledge of a vaccinated person getting Covid and dying it might make me question its efficiency.

I don't know at what point that kind of understanding is part of the teaching of maths, Monica but many people get lost at maths at some point. Percentages are another thing that are a mystery for ever to some. Perhaps these concepts should begin earlier, to make children familiar with the theoretical side of numbers. That, of course, would require all teachers to thoroughly understand statistics.

Elegran
If you haven't done all the work, you have no right to reach the conclusion.

I wouldn't go quite this far because no one person can do all the research on every subject across the whole field of knowledge.

What people do need to do is to understand how to assess the results of research, work out what peer-reviewed journals and reports carry credence in any field and be prepared to look for corroborative eveidence.

More than anything a good laymen's understanding of statistics is needed. Nothing beyond the capacity of someone whose maths never went beyond O level or GCSE, but the one thing that throughout the pandemic which has reduced me to nails-scraping-down-a-blackboard state, is most people's complete misunderstanding of the significance of simple concepts of probability or capacity to draw common sense from a range of figures. Mind you this is an ignorance shared by most journalists of the: 'Scientists have shown that your risk of cancer of the second joint on the left little finger doubles if you eat chocolate at breakfast' variety

Where are all the government health advisers on this?… they seem to have faded into the wallpaper, heard nothing from them for a long time…. To me that doesn’t bode well..

Some pairs of graphs of completely non-related things.
www.fastcompany.com/3030529/hilarious-graphs-prove-that-correlation-isnt-causation

The graph of "US crude oil imports from Norway" correlates perfectly with "Drivers killed in collision with railway train" Just what are those sneaky Norwegians putting into their crude oil?

Everyone now thinks that their research (hearing lurid stories from friends about their cousin's mother-in-law's window-cleaner's next-door neighbour, and reading how someone in the States dropped dead of a heart attack two days after getting a jab) trumps the research of lots of trained researchers (that is a clue) who study the way vaccinations work and the tiniest workings of the human body, collect thousands of accounts and statistics, form a possible hypothesis from what they have learnt, set up experiments to test that hypothesis, and collect thousands more bits of data from those experiments, and then think very hard about what they have found out, and draw a conclusion. They usually still call that conclusion a "theory" because with proper science more is being discovered about everything whenever someone does all those careful measurements again and collects masses more data.

If you haven't done all the work, you have no right to reach the conclusion.

It is not sufficient to show that two sets of figures move in line with each other (vaccinations/still births) you need also to show what the link is between the two.

When vaccinations were introduced. House prices started rising and have shot up as the vaccination rate has gone up. So does that mean that having the COVID vaccination directly causes house prices to rise?

Actually, a good argument could be made for this. As the economy opened out with the introduction of vaccinations and the end of blackdown, and with the extra savings people generated, the housing market boomed.

OH and I have impeccable sources for my 'facts' www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2022 - government statistics.

Mind you whether a vaccination was a necessity to pay more for a house and the non-vaccinated paid less, I am not sure.

Perhaps Tamayrah, could offer us her sage opinion.

I am CEV and have had 4 jabs so far. I caught covid mid March and spent a couple of days in bed.
My GP had given me a two week supply of AB at the start of covid in case I caught it but I propped myself up in bed to try and keep my lungs clear and I didn't need the AB.
Exhaustion and headaches were bad but a neighbour put some paracetamol through the letterbox for us and that helped.
I think I would have been much worse if I hadn't had the jabs.
If you haven't had it yet, make sure you have paracetamol and some easy reading handy.

I agree wholeheartedly with Aveline and Marydoll. What an inane remark.

Aveline

What 'facts' are you referring to? By research do you mean trawling the internet until you find something you agree with? Or asking your hairdresser? I have a very different understanding of what research really means

Totally agree with you Aveline!

What 'facts' are you referring to? By research do you mean trawling the internet until you find something you agree with? Or asking your hairdresser? I have a very different understanding of what research really means

Everyone needs to do their own research The facts are there to be seen

Afraid we seem to have reached the stage where science supported by research and evidence seem to carry no weight any more. People seek out the “truth” that accords with their preformed beliefs. I have given up trying now.

Mapleleaf

Yes, and the internet is far more factual than information given out by legitimate medical professionals, isn’t it? ??‍♀️

Exactly so ?

Tamayra

I agree There’s lots of information about the down side of the ‘vaccines’ even from the actual vaccine producers.
When top athletes start dropping from heart attacks & the numbers of stillborn babies rise we need to look more closely at the vaccine agenda.

Which athletes?

Iam64

My young hairdresser isn’t jabbed. She gets her news from the internet, she said immunisation causing young men to have heart attacks. She added that Shane Wayne’s heart attack was caused by the covid jab, nothing to do with smoking and drinking

Lots of young people rely on social media for so called public health information....they listen to SM influences which is why Deborah James had been so successful in spreading her message about bowel cancer .... my own 3 are triple jabbed but many young people are not.... not that we could rely on herd immunity anyway with the variants changing so often....my DD doesn't want my GD vaccinated....I kind of get where she's coming from even tho I'm a health professional....they've both had delta and omicron but a mild dose so been ok....and the concerns re fertility are not going to present for many years....so I respect her decision..... all my family including my 85 year old mum have had covid at least once....we've all had it mild....I'm putting that down to the fact we are all fully vacced

Yes, and the internet is far more factual than information given out by legitimate medical professionals, isn’t it? ??‍♀️

My young hairdresser isn’t jabbed. She gets her news from the internet, she said immunisation causing young men to have heart attacks. She added that Shane Wayne’s heart attack was caused by the covid jab, nothing to do with smoking and drinking

Facts, please, Tamayra. You can’t just make such sweeping comments as this without posting legitimate facts to back them up. How many top athletes have ‘dropped with heart attacks” as a result of covid vaccination and ditto stillbirths?

Tamayra

I agree There’s lots of information about the down side of the ‘vaccines’ even from the actual vaccine producers.
When top athletes start dropping from heart attacks & the numbers of stillborn babies rise we need to look more closely at the vaccine agenda.

Could you please point me to reputable statistics on the number of still births rising?

Kryptonite

Different variants need different jabs? So existing jabs won't work with these new variants? Confused. I always thought if you had a vaccination it would protect you against the thing you've been vaccinated against, like flu, measles, smallpox, rubella, mumps, polio, chickenpox ...

You do realize that they change they influenza vaccine yearly, don’t you?