ABC Pride book from Dorling Kindersley, for young children

Mollygo that's going to need a lot of answering and I mean a lot

And being a shy introverted person, it's one of those subjects I could talk your ears off about

But I have family coming

Maybe PM me and we can chat about it at a later date

I see the gender critical are out cross examining again.

Glorianny

I see the gender critical are out cross examining again.

I see you are generalising again.

I am gender critical, but I see no issue with having books that feature transpeople, as I have said more than once on this thread.

I see no need for three year olds to need to be taught about adult relationships at what appears to be the level of detail in the book in the OP, however, and IMO there is definitely no place for that in schools/nurseries, but that applies across the piece, not just to trans issues.

'The gender critical' do not necessarily speak as one, as you would know if you read our posts, rather than just looking for minor points with which to trip us up or making assumptions about what you think we think.

Why is it that when 'the gender critical' ask questions it is 'cross-examining', 'demanding', 'hectoring' etc; but when the questions come the other way is is ok? How can there be a discussion unless people ask questions? As I've said on another thread today - there are complaints that threads about trans issues are echo chambers, but how can they not be when there are so few posters with non-gender-critical views who are willing to discuss rather than prosthelytize?

There are polite ways to ask questions and there is cross examining. If you don't understand the difference it isn't my job to educate you.

I don't need education, thanks ). Interestingly, there is a thread on Mumsnet just now about people who say that those who disagree with them need to educate themselves . I thought it was interesting anyway.

Which questions have not been asked politely, please?

Oh yes, the ‘cross examining’ claim when you don’t like or can’t answer the question, the ‘not my job to educate you’ for the same reasons are regular features by some posters, whatever their current name is.
VS, I like being on GN, so I’m unwilling to get involved in PM with you.
The simple questions, e.g. Who do you refer them on to?
Would you tell them you are referring them on? Yes or no. They are not big questions.
What would you tell them if they ask, “What will happen when you refer me on? might require a longer answer, but a child
asking that implies discomfort on the part of the child and a straightforward answer would be more reassuring than a long explanation.

VioletSky

Mollygo that's going to need a lot of answering and I mean a lot

And being a shy introverted person, it's one of those subjects I could talk your ears off about

But I have family coming

Maybe PM me and we can chat about it at a later date

I and, I'm sure, others would like to know the answers to Mollygo's questions about referring on.
Please could you answer in the thread?

Glorianny I think I have asked questions in a normal polite way, as have others.
If you perceive any to be impolite, or akin to cross-examination, please could you indicate which questions those are and in what way they are not suitable.

For instance, I hope that this question comes across as polite.

I think it would just be easier for you guys to ask Google so that the bits you don't like arent taken out on me

Doodledog

I don't need education, thanks ). Interestingly, there is a thread on Mumsnet just now about people who say that those who disagree with them need to educate themselves . I thought it was interesting anyway.

Which questions have not been asked politely, please?

Well if you can't see for yourself you obviously do need educating.
Basically it's the difference between.
Could you explain what happens then?
and
What are you on about?
One is polite the other isn't,

I feel it totally wrong. Just who are these people who think children don’t need a childhood. Who decides this is normal?Parents should not have to put up with this imposed on a child. I would stage a protest. Move schools anything to prevent it.

Glorianny

There are polite ways to ask questions and there is cross examining. If you don't understand the difference it isn't my job to educate you.

Oh, sorry I missed seeing this.

Well, please make whatever comments you'd like that will put your point of view.

VioletSky

I think it would just be easier for you guys to ask Google so that the bits you don't like arent taken out on me

I don't understand what you mean.

We are asking you for clarification of what you would do or say, as someone who says this is part of your job, not some vague stuff from Google.

"Basically it's the difference between.
Could you explain what happens then?
and
What are you on about?
One is polite the other isn't,"

That's what I thought.
Have people been asking the latter type of question in this thread? I don't think I've seen that.

No thank you

My carreer is extremely important to me and I do not need to defend it.

I can't talk about real life situations anywhere

I can't put years of training into shorter words, better that you look into policies yourself

Well if you can't see for yourself you obviously do need educating. Basically it's the difference between. Could you explain what happens then? and What are you on about? One is polite the other isn't
Oh, I realise that. I think that telling people they are not educated is rude, impolite and in this case inaccurate, though. so again - double standards at play. It fits with the general view taken on Mumsnet though

As other have asked, if you can point to where anyone (never mind 'the gender critical') has said 'What are you on about' I would be very surprised. I may have missed it, but think you are seeing things that aren't there, and making assumptions about what people have said, as well as what they think.
If you meant Molly, I think you owe her an apology, and if you didn't, perhaps you could please educate us as to who has said it?

VS I understand you not wanting to 'out' yourself on here, so would you please let us know in general terms to what sort of person someone in your role would refer a 3-5 year old who expressed dissatisfaction with their gender? A qualified teacher? A psychologist? A specialist in 'gender' issues? Something else? I would also be interested to know how the system works in primary schools. Thankyouverymuch.

The gender critical .

Mollygo

VioletSky

I'd listen, tell them it's OK to feel the way they do, comfort them...

Then I'd refer on their concerns

Refer on their concerns to where? Would you tel them you are referring on their concerns?
If they asked what would happen when you refer on their concerns, what would you tell them will happen?

If there is any doubt this is cross examination not one question asked politely but a series fired at someone.
No apology from me because my criticism is valid.
A simple What happens then? would have been polite.

Mollygo

VioletSky

I'd listen, tell them it's OK to feel the way they do, comfort them...

Then I'd refer on their concerns

Refer on their concerns to where? Would you tel them you are referring on their concerns?
If they asked what would happen when you refer on their concerns, what would you tell them will happen?

To the safe guarding lead in school. It is a requirement that teachers never tell students that they can talk to them in confidence. And that teachers refer upwards anything of concern. Concern can cover a very wide range of topics.

Incidentally anyone who has worked in education knows the process of referral for any teaching assistant. TA informs child's class teacher who decides if further action is needed.
As Mollygo has experience of education she should know how TAs work.

It's the modus operandi Glorianny. The usual GC routine designed to shut down discussion of a topic.

Thank you, GagaJo. That makes sense.

Nope. The last thing I want is discussion shut down. The more people listen to these discussions the better as far as I am concerned.

Yes we can't promise keep secrets, or ask leading questions

In the Primary schools I worked in, children expressing concerns re their gender would be referred to the Educational Psychologist, with the agreement of the parents. Further referrals might then be pursued, depending on the nature of the situation - to Health professionals, to CAMHS, ETC.