Pj wearers taking children to school,

Standards arn’t slipping, they’re changing.
No, they're slipping. In fact standards are slipping in everything and you can see it everywhere.

Chestnut

^Standards arn’t slipping, they’re changing.^
No, they're slipping. In fact standards are slipping in everything and you can see it everywhere.

I think that change through the generations has probably always felt that things are getting worse and standards are slipping. Our Headteacher read out a news article from many years ago about the state of education; I have seen similar ones recently because it is a recurring theme. Similarly clothing/fashion. Mini skirts caused an outcry, women wearing trousers, long hair on men, earrings and makeup on men, etc, etc. It is all part of a changing world.

Purpledaffodil

Our rector had a bride and groom come for a pre wedding chat. Bride wore pjs and dressing gown. She did manage the full meringue wedding dress on the day though. ?

Assuming no special needs, I'd have sent her away with a flea in her ear!

Oversleeping for the school run is one thing, but turning up for an important appointment in obvious nightclothes (not leisure wear) is rude.

icanhandthemback

Chestnut

Standards arn’t slipping, they’re changing.
No, they're slipping. In fact standards are slipping in everything and you can see it everywhere.

I think that change through the generations has probably always felt that things are getting worse and standards are slipping. Our Headteacher read out a news article from many years ago about the state of education; I have seen similar ones recently because it is a recurring theme. Similarly clothing/fashion. Mini skirts caused an outcry, women wearing trousers, long hair on men, earrings and makeup on men, etc, etc. It is all part of a changing world.

Agreed, those things you mention are part of a changing world, but not the same as standards slipping. People always dressed themselves, even with outrageous clothes and crazy hairstyles. Wearing nightclothes outside is very different. These are people who would normally get dressed to go to school or the supermarket but haven't bothered.
PS: Driving to school in nightclothes and opening the door to let the children out is not really the same as walking down the street and onto the school premises. You are in a private vehicle and no-one can see you, so who would care?

Standards can only slip if here is an absolute benchmark from which they can slip, and who gets to decide what that should be?

As I said upthread, there was a time when not wearing a hat outdoors, or wearing the wrong gloves for the time of year was seen as letting standards slip, but I doubt if any young people (or even people of my own age) would even notice now. I am 63, and in my lifetime many things have changed. Hanging out washing on a Sunday, touching up a dab of face powder in public, women going to the bar to buy a drink - many things like that were considered beyond the pale when I was a child, but now you see people applying full make-up on trains and buses, women expect to pay their way, and most people see Sunday as time to relax or do the things that can't get done in the working week. Even churchgoers are happy to go to the shops or catch up with chores, and nobody would gossip about them, (would they?)

My grandmother's generation would judge one another (well, women anyway - men escaped a lot of this social control) by the condition of their doorstep and nets, and anyone without washing out before 9.00am was 'letting standards slip'. Do we really want to go back to that? I think we have become less bothered by 'what the neighbours think', and I see that as a good thing.

There is another thread discussing how standards have slipped with Steiff teddy bears! That is another example, quality has gone down the pan. You can see standards slipping where quality of something is not as good as it used to be and that list is endless.

^ Wearing nightclothes outside is very different.^

Who determines what constitutes "night clothes"?
Is there a material, a style or something that differentiates them from non standard slipping wear?

oh come on icanhandthemback - I am sure you can spot PJs as well as anyone else.

It's true that some clothes/nightclothes are the same, t-shirt and shorts type especially, but normally PJs and items like onesies (marketed for relaxing at home) do not look like outdoor clothes.

Not really, ICHTB. I wouldn't wear nightclothes outside, but there is no good reason why not - not that I can think of, anyway. Particularly in summer, lightweight trousers and tops can look very like pyjamas, and pyjama styles have changed from the flannel stripes with drawstring waists that used to be the norm. Now they tend to be more like t shirts and pull-on trousers. Dressing gowns are another matter, though .

I don't know about quality of other goods declining, but if they are, maybe that's because we are more of a consumer society, and are used to having more 'things', and for those 'things' to be available to all. We see old photos where children are not wearing shoes, and people get upset and outraged; but forget that shoes cost a week's wage, people had lots of children, and that the reason we don't see that now (not yet, at least) is because there are children in other countries making shoes very cheaply. Of course they are not going to be the same quality as a hand-made pair that few people could afford to buy new. I dare say it's the same with teddy bears - do we want every child to have a cheaper one, or just a few to have a collectable high-quality one?

I agree Chestnut with seeing both standards and quality slipping.
This trend of wearing night attire, namely pjs, dressing gown and slippers came from internet influencers I am told.Women who do it buy what they think of as glamorous pjs and mainly pale fluffy dressing gowns and slippers, but it must be worn with make up and hair done, I suppose the look of actresses in a film who slip out of bed looking wonderful in the morning.
There may well be some though, who cannot be bothered to dress so it suits them to do it.
It also is meant to show that the woman, for it is indeed only women who go along with this trend, have no need to dress as they do not have to work.It is a strange trend to be sure.

HeavenLeigh

Mentioning anything unusual is risky nowadays! Jeez! ?????? is it! And I thought this was a public forum!

You've got to watch what you say or you'll be stung by the Queen bee and her drones they are circling all the time to bring you down,or make you look sexist or silly. It certainly is a policed forum.

There are pyjamas that pass for dog walking or children hauling.

Fleurpepper

oh come on icanhandthemback - I am sure you can spot PJs as well as anyone else.

Not always, Fleurpepper. I often see things labelled as pj tops which look perfectly reasonable to wear as part of a going out outfit. Similarly, I see teeshirts which look great for bed. And I certainly see some dresses which should probably only be worn to bed!
My point is, WHO determines what is nightwear? It seems to me to be a social construct which really only exists as long as the majority agree to it. WHO determines that it is a standard we should all adhere to? WHO is it hurting? Would it make any difference if you knew they were clean clothes donned after getting out of bed and after showering? What is it that offends? Many of the materials are identical to day clothes so what does it matter?
I am happy to abide by laws, try to be inoffensive in my language and wouldn't blaspheme because some people find that difficult, but I see no reason why I should adhere to society's rules as long as I am decent.

There are bedroom pyjamas.

There are long pyjamas, nice for dog walking or children hauling.

Norah

There are bedroom pyjamas.

I really need some like that this summer. So cool.

Who decides which pyjama is offensive on school dropoff?

When there’s your choice of two above Norah, I think one sort would be less offensive to some parents.

I actually had 3 choices. One is a couple of posts further down. My point was that many are day clothing. One IS for inside the confines of home, IMO.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-584078-612ghojmxl-ac-ul320-.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-458978-71ntamczbwl-ac-sx425-sx-ux-sy-uy-.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-319410-61th1s19uwl-ac-ux466-.jpg

who knew, 3 photos at one go.

I saw several younger parents etc in outfits like the short and T-shirt one at the school gates this summer. I never gave it a thought

I agree with you icanhandtheback a social construct which we can use to criticise nonconformists.

Farzanah, quite!

A friend drove her husband to work wearing a short frilly nightie. Dropped him off just as the shift changed and her car broke down surrounded by hundreds of workmen. She had to walk through them all to go and get her husband to help!