we can't stop going to the toilet,so how do WE solve the sewage issue?

Katie59

If we nationalize the industry and double the charges we might get close, don’t get the idea that someone else is going to pay, we the customers will pay, one way or another.

It’s not renationalising (as long as it’s done efficiently) that will raise prices it’s the cost of upgrading the systems so that they don’t cause pollution.
If we are expecting zero pollution it’s going to be very expensive

One thing we could all do (but too many don’t!) is to stop flushing wet wipes, and the sort of fat that’s going to solidify and along with wet wipes etc. cause massive fatbergs in the sewers, which must take so much time and money to sort out.

I think part of that problem is that people don't realise that the water they pour down the sink, which often does contain fat, goes to same pipes as the stuff that goes down the toilet.

Because we have our 'thing' we try not to put anything but the very vestiges of oil and fats down the drains. Excess cooking fat is wiped off dishes and pans with a kitchen towel and binned; used cooking oil is saved for lighting bonfires...

Putting wet wipes, panty liners, tampons, condoms etc. down the toilet is inexcusable.

Mamie

Here in France septic tanks should be emptied every four years. A man comes with a tank and takes it away, not sure where, but strictly controlled. The system is inspected once every ten years and must meet the norms. The local Mairie (Town Hall) is informed of the rating.
The system has to be inspected and emptied before the house is sold.
Ours has three chambers and a pump with run-offs in the garden for grey water.
It is a whole new set of vocabulary when you move to France.
A level French had not prepared me. 😂

One thing we could all do (but too many don’t!) is to stop flushing wet wipes, and the sort of fat that’s going to solidify and along with wet wipes etc. cause massive fatbergs in the sewers, which must take so much time and money to sort out.

IMO, given that so many people just don’t give a toss, wet wipes should be banned by law. Or else made so that they’ll disintegrate.
We used to manage perfectly well without them, didn’t we?

MaizieD

Mollygo

Witzend,
At least tomato’s are a stem away from the sludge.
I remember a character in the Rhanna series who used his own waste to nurture his rhubarb!🤣🤣

Quite a few gardeners save their urine to put on the compost heap...

A neighbour of ours just used to pee on his. It was behind a hedge at the bottom of a very long garden. When elderly and no longer keen on anything but very short walks, their dog used it as her loo, too. We used to hear her being told, ‘Right to the top! Right to the very top!’ - if she was showing signs of ‘can’t be bothered to go any further’. 😂

MaizieD

If we renationalise the water companies we would no longer be paying out hefty dividend to shareholders.

I really don't understand the assumption that public ownership automatically raises prices. As I recall, having lived through the sell off of just about all the 'family silver', the effect was the exact opposite...

Perhaps that has been people's experience Maizie. I worked for a Nationalised Industry at one point. They seemed to find it very hard to modernise, save money and use it for moving to a better outcome.

I have yet to find any extreme that works and am beginning to believe that those going into politics just cannot cope with the complex. Either that or they don't believe we can.

If we renationalise the water companies we would no longer be paying out hefty dividend to shareholders.

I really don't understand the assumption that public ownership automatically raises prices. As I recall, having lived through the sell off of just about all the 'family silver', the effect was the exact opposite...

If we nationalize the industry and double the charges we might get close, don’t get the idea that someone else is going to pay, we the customers will pay, one way or another.

Definitely nationalise- what “choice” do we have of water companies? They are a law unto themselves- discharging sewage into our waterways without any comeback - a Brexit bonus indeed sums it up.

I agree that keeping toxic chemicals out of the septic-tank system is a problem and I have to read the long list of ingredients that "kill 99% of all germs" very carefully when buying cleaning materials, and avoid them.
But the tank works well and the grass in the part of the lawn where its buried is always lush and green I think its a very ingenious way of dealing with the problem if you aren't lucky enough to be connected to the mains.

It’s going to get a bit whiffy on the lower Thames.

www.wired.co.uk/article/sewage-environment-climate-change-london

Meanwhile, in my own city how many people do they plan for.
In 2000 the population was 162,000. It’s now 316,000.

Mollygo

Eloethan, you’re quite probably right, that’s not the point I’m making.
If I’ve been paying 2/3 more than I needed to pay, for at least 20 years, what have they done with the extra money?
I know for a fact they haven’t been using it to support my DC-even though such support would have been most welcome.
And from where is the money that I’m not paying now going to be recouped?

Gone to the shareholders

I remember as a child in the 60’s, when we lived on the Kent coast, we often couldn’t swim in the sea because the sewage had been discharged. The water would be brown and full of fibrous matter. I’m surprised we didn’t succumb to all sorts of diseases. 🤢

There’s also the issue of using potable water to flush our toilets. Perhaps that will change one day, too.

Eloethan, you’re quite probably right, that’s not the point I’m making.
If I’ve been paying 2/3 more than I needed to pay, for at least 20 years, what have they done with the extra money?
I know for a fact they haven’t been using it to support my DC-even though such support would have been most welcome.
And from where is the money that I’m not paying now going to be recouped?

I don't think any essential services should be privatised. Instead of using money received to improve services, it is being paid to shareholders.

Mollygo You might be paying less on a water meter but spare a thought for families with children. I doubt they are paying less than on the non-metered system.

Mollygo

Witzend,
At least tomato’s are a stem away from the sludge.
I remember a character in the Rhanna series who used his own waste to nurture his rhubarb!🤣🤣

Quite a few gardeners save their urine to put on the compost heap...

We have a 'thing'. It's not a septic tank; it somehow separates the solids from the liquid, treats the liquids and discharges clean water into the adjoining stream. It's electrically driven. All our sewage and waste water goes into it.

The installer said that it was OK to use household chemicals, including bleach, in moderation. Which is fine because I'm not one of these obsessives who pour bleach down the toilet every day...

We've had it for 5 or 6 years now and it's been emptied once, this year.

Because we have this mini treatment plant we don't have to pay the sewage charge on our water bill.

Lathyrus - and any others interested - in the days when houses had a 'netty' or ash toilet at the end of the yard, the night soil men came round and emptied them periodically. The 'night soil' was transported to the countryside and spread on the fields. Since people also threw rubbish into the netty, it's not surprising that you can often find bits of broken crockery and clay tobacco pipes when walking across arable land.

Witzend,
At least tomato’s are a stem away from the sludge.
I remember a character in the Rhanna series who used his own waste to nurture his rhubarb!🤣🤣

Lathyrus

There was a thread about this a while ago and I was surprised (astounded) to learn that a lot of human waste is treated and then used as fertiliser on the fields.

I always knew that slurry smelled bad but I didn’t know why
🤔🤭😱

When I was a child, my father used to get what was called ‘sludge’ (treated sewage) to put on the garden. It was quite safe and IIRC didn’t really smell.
Funnily enough, we used to get quite a few tomato plants sprouting out of it!

No one butting heads, just convivial conversation with interesting info.
Simples.

This is a really interesting thread. Who would have thought sewage would be so interesting! Thank you for starting it infoman.

Whitewavemark2

There isn’t a single argument that makes sense in support of a privatised water supply.

It should be nationalised.

I still disagree with this state version of how to run naturally forming monopolies although I agree there is a real problem with them. Just a few issues are:

1. Nationalisation has centralised control - often a long way from decision to action.
2. It gives less consumer choice. Nationalisation rarely recognises the differences in different part of the country.
3. There is little competition to learn from. This leads a lack of drive for change and a very powerful workforce (sometimes excessively so).

Obviously there would also be negatives for attempting to privatise natural monopolies but you are not suggesting that.

My answer would be communitisation. Letting communities run areas that make sense. Yes, the state would have to be involved in the provision of some commissioning and co-ordination and yes private industry would be part of it. However, in my view communities should play the central role. The arguments for either of the extremes have been shown, by experience, not to work.

Local water treatment works using nano tubes is the only way to tackle the problem in the future, imo.
Perhaps when this system reaches the tipping point, the investment will be forthcoming?