Where are you from? Is it an insult?

Fleurpepper

vegansrock

But if they said they were British from London would you follow up with, “but where are you really from? “ That’s the potentially offensive bit.

Exactly- just depends how it is done! Not read every post, but this video came to mind.

youtu.be/crAv5ttax2I

I have a rather strange accent, and I am asked the question all the time, and I don't mind at all. But a very different situation.

Good video but of course it will sweep over many an ignorant head.

Callistemon21

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

I best take myself off to the Tower as all my employees are white at this moment in time.

Any idea why?

The best people who applied for the jobs at this moment in time perhaps?

Yes, that is the answer regularly given.

However ...

foxie48

DaisyAnne

Dickens

GagaJo

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training.

In my humble opinion, I don't think you can train people not to be racist. Racism comes from the 'heart' - it's an emotional reaction (my opinion is 'humble' because I think the issue is complex and I've not studied it enough to have an authoritative view).

You can train them to say and do the 'right' things - for sure - but to get to the root of racism, you need to understand why one individual decides that another is inferior. It could be because of 'education' (or lack of it), personal grievance, or a lack of understanding / information.

And there are degrees of racism - some are racist but wouldn't dream of using racist language on a personal level, others jump right in.

An acquaintance of mine who isn't shy of using racist terminology on occasions was the first to offer help to a newly-arrived local immigrant (from Thailand) when the man was looking around for a helping hand. He was surprised that we were surprised at his generosity and just said, "well the poor chap was in a pickle"...

I don't think it's just a case of not being able to "train" people. You end up alienating people who would otherwise want the changes you want.

Anyone who knows anything about organisational behaviour will tell you this will not change how people act or carry them with you. I cannot imagine anyone standing back and studying the issue of racism in the UK, telling those who want to change it to go out and bully people, call them names and then take them off, as if we live in China or similar, and "re-educate" them.

In the 90's I was in a multicultural team responsible for delivering a range of anti-racist/multicultural training to senior management teams. This was in educational institutions in a large culturally diverse city. I would agree that to a large extent you can't train people to be anti-racist but you can stop them from behaving in a a racist way by having policies in place, by monitoring the effectiveness of those policies and by sanctioning anyone who doesn't follow those policies. I know we have moved on a great deal since those days, I was Chair of Governors in a school for several years pre covid and have seen that the policies and ways of doing things eg Recruitment and selection are seen as standard practice whereas in the 90's they were seen somewhat differently! Don't challenge the person, never aggressively but do challenge the behaviour is the way I see things and make it easy for people to behave properly by making it clear what behaviours are acceptable. I think most people like to be a valid part of the group, if most people in the group behave appropriately they carry the odd straggler along with them.

All that sounds very sensible foxie. Certainly, it's better than beating people up on GN because they don't wholly share your extreme views about people we know nothing about, in circumstances of which we were not part.

This point is especially true when those attacked want greater equality. Such people would probably be interested if, as you suggest, changes are introduced in an acceptable, tactful and polite way. Let's face it, these mores of society will also change in future times and differing circumstances.

Everyone is entitled to their views. As long as it isn't outside the law, they are also entitled to behave according to those views. What they are not "entitled" to do is insist others adhere to the extremes of their personal stance.

What we are discussing is often just about how manners have changed. Teaching a child to be polite is something all Grannies have done in the past. We know you need to enable an understanding of why you are asking them to behave in a particular way. You would also ask them to respect the fact that everyone will not agree with them. Explaining why they see a particular behaviour as polite and considerate is probably the best anyone can do in a social setting. GN is a social setting; it is not a place of work. Most people will listen and probably continue to think about what they have heard if it is both accessible and polite. In such circumstances, a warm drip, drip works far better than tipping a cold bath of water over people.

I think lot depends on the tone of your voice and the expression on your face.

I've seen children come into school with racist ideology they've picked up from their parents. An educational system tries to show them that everyone is equal. And holds them responsible for racist, discriminatory behaviour. Which is exactly what society, businesses and yes, the royal machine, should do.

The royals are lagging behind. They need to catch up.

DaisyAnne

Dickens

GagaJo

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training.

In my humble opinion, I don't think you can train people not to be racist. Racism comes from the 'heart' - it's an emotional reaction (my opinion is 'humble' because I think the issue is complex and I've not studied it enough to have an authoritative view).

You can train them to say and do the 'right' things - for sure - but to get to the root of racism, you need to understand why one individual decides that another is inferior. It could be because of 'education' (or lack of it), personal grievance, or a lack of understanding / information.

And there are degrees of racism - some are racist but wouldn't dream of using racist language on a personal level, others jump right in.

An acquaintance of mine who isn't shy of using racist terminology on occasions was the first to offer help to a newly-arrived local immigrant (from Thailand) when the man was looking around for a helping hand. He was surprised that we were surprised at his generosity and just said, "well the poor chap was in a pickle"...

I don't think it's just a case of not being able to "train" people. You end up alienating people who would otherwise want the changes you want.

Anyone who knows anything about organisational behaviour will tell you this will not change how people act or carry them with you. I cannot imagine anyone standing back and studying the issue of racism in the UK, telling those who want to change it to go out and bully people, call them names and then take them off, as if we live in China or similar, and "re-educate" them.

In the 90's I was in a multicultural team responsible for delivering a range of anti-racist/multicultural training to senior management teams. This was in educational institutions in a large culturally diverse city. I would agree that to a large extent you can't train people to be anti-racist but you can stop them from behaving in a a racist way by having policies in place, by monitoring the effectiveness of those policies and by sanctioning anyone who doesn't follow those policies. I know we have moved on a great deal since those days, I was Chair of Governors in a school for several years pre covid and have seen that the policies and ways of doing things eg Recruitment and selection are seen as standard practice whereas in the 90's they were seen somewhat differently! Don't challenge the person, never aggressively but do challenge the behaviour is the way I see things and make it easy for people to behave properly by making it clear what behaviours are acceptable. I think most people like to be a valid part of the group, if most people in the group behave appropriately they carry the odd straggler along with them.

Dickens

GagaJo

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training.

In my humble opinion, I don't think you can train people not to be racist. Racism comes from the 'heart' - it's an emotional reaction (my opinion is 'humble' because I think the issue is complex and I've not studied it enough to have an authoritative view).

You can train them to say and do the 'right' things - for sure - but to get to the root of racism, you need to understand why one individual decides that another is inferior. It could be because of 'education' (or lack of it), personal grievance, or a lack of understanding / information.

And there are degrees of racism - some are racist but wouldn't dream of using racist language on a personal level, others jump right in.

An acquaintance of mine who isn't shy of using racist terminology on occasions was the first to offer help to a newly-arrived local immigrant (from Thailand) when the man was looking around for a helping hand. He was surprised that we were surprised at his generosity and just said, "well the poor chap was in a pickle"...

I don't think it's just a case of not being able to "train" people. You end up alienating people who would otherwise want the changes you want.

Anyone who knows anything about organisational behaviour will tell you this will not change how people act or carry them with you. I cannot imagine anyone standing back and studying the issue of racism in the UK, telling those who want to change it to go out and bully people, call them names and then take them off, as if we live in China or similar, and "re-educate" them.

Just to add our customer base is varied.

We supply different services to different companies.

Our individual customers have become friends over the years and I bake cakes for them and they supply me with fragrant Indian spice mixes and Easter European recipes and delicacies.

Fleurpepper you can only interview people if they apply for a position.

It is immaterial what ethnicity they are, if they have the ability and drive to do the job along with being a team player and a credible reference we are happy to give folks a chance.

Our business is in a diverse ethnic community. Predominantly Asian and Eastern European communities who tend to want employment within their own communities.

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

I best take myself off to the Tower as all my employees are white at this moment in time.

Any idea why?

The best people who applied for the jobs at this moment in time perhaps?

GagaJo

DaisyAnne

They showed they are doing just that GagaJo. What more do you want to stop you from talking about this event?

Prejudice is only real and only matters to you if it is to do with being non "white". What seems to be an attack on people who are white because they are white (you keep defining them in that way) doesn't seem to strike you as racist.

Taxpayers come in all sorts. Whatever their colour or culture, all are entitled to a view of the RF. We tend to like decisions made by majorities, not pressure groups.

It is not and never will be all about one group. Of course, we should aim to treat people as equals - all people. If you keep moving the goalposts, however, and coming up with another sin others can commit, some will always be perceived to fail to come up to the new standard - however multicultural and tolerant they are.

People who take things to extremes for one group and one group only cannot be called egalitarian. They are not interested in equality for all.

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training. A set % of staff need to be ethnically diverse. The staff will still be predominantly white, reflecting the population. But the odd token person of colour isn't enough.

For what it's worth, I think William is probably OK. He and Harry are brothers after all. But look at the horrific Princess Michael of Kent. Racist woman. And there is of course the member of the family that passed comment on the potential colour of Harry's baby.

They need to be seen to be doing what any good employer would do to stamp out racism.

The one group that is extremely represented is that of white people. I'm glad you feel that isn't egalitarian or equality.

It might help if you explain why you -it is your opinion not a fact - my post is a "reactionary gesture". What exactly do you mean by that. Do you actually know what it means - in relation to my post or is it just groupspeak used by the small pressure groups you support?

By the way, that's another personal racially based insult I have added to the list - unless you can give a comprehensive explanation of course.

GrannyGravy13

I best take myself off to the Tower as all my employees are white at this moment in time.

Any idea why?

From what I understand, the questions - questioning -seemed more like an 'interrogation' than the usual 'pleasantries' normal on such occasions.

Would this lady have spoken to her peers in a similar manner?

vegansrock

But if they said they were British from London would you follow up with, “but where are you really from? “ That’s the potentially offensive bit.

Exactly- just depends how it is done! Not read every post, but this video came to mind.

youtu.be/crAv5ttax2I

I have a rather strange accent, and I am asked the question all the time, and I don't mind at all. But a very different situation.

GagaJo

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training.

In my humble opinion, I don't think you can train people not to be racist. Racism comes from the 'heart' - it's an emotional reaction (my opinion is 'humble' because I think the issue is complex and I've not studied it enough to have an authoritative view).

You can train them to say and do the 'right' things - for sure - but to get to the root of racism, you need to understand why one individual decides that another is inferior. It could be because of 'education' (or lack of it), personal grievance, or a lack of understanding / information.

And there are degrees of racism - some are racist but wouldn't dream of using racist language on a personal level, others jump right in.

An acquaintance of mine who isn't shy of using racist terminology on occasions was the first to offer help to a newly-arrived local immigrant (from Thailand) when the man was looking around for a helping hand. He was surprised that we were surprised at his generosity and just said, "well the poor chap was in a pickle"...

I best take myself off to the Tower as all my employees are white at this moment in time.

DaisyAnne

They showed they are doing just that GagaJo. What more do you want to stop you from talking about this event?

Prejudice is only real and only matters to you if it is to do with being non "white". What seems to be an attack on people who are white because they are white (you keep defining them in that way) doesn't seem to strike you as racist.

Taxpayers come in all sorts. Whatever their colour or culture, all are entitled to a view of the RF. We tend to like decisions made by majorities, not pressure groups.

It is not and never will be all about one group. Of course, we should aim to treat people as equals - all people. If you keep moving the goalposts, however, and coming up with another sin others can commit, some will always be perceived to fail to come up to the new standard - however multicultural and tolerant they are.

People who take things to extremes for one group and one group only cannot be called egalitarian. They are not interested in equality for all.

That is just a reactionary gesture. It needs to be a wide spread programme. Diversity and Inclusivity training. A set % of staff need to be ethnically diverse. The staff will still be predominantly white, reflecting the population. But the odd token person of colour isn't enough.

For what it's worth, I think William is probably OK. He and Harry are brothers after all. But look at the horrific Princess Michael of Kent. Racist woman. And there is of course the member of the family that passed comment on the potential colour of Harry's baby.

They need to be seen to be doing what any good employer would do to stamp out racism.

The one group that is extremely represented is that of white people. I'm glad you feel that isn't egalitarian or equality.

The thing is that there is a difference between being prejudice and being racist.

Prejudice is unhelpful stereotypes.

Whereas racism is actual oppression.

Some groups of white people have experienced racism and oppression but the vast majority of white people have not faced racism or oppression due to race.

Most white people will nit be turned down for a job or a tenancy or be treated unfairly due to their race.

So while neither are acceptable, it's not a competition most white people should enter and not an experience they can relate too

They showed they are doing just that GagaJo. What more do you want to stop you from talking about this event?

Prejudice is only real and only matters to you if it is to do with being non "white". What seems to be an attack on people who are white because they are white (you keep defining them in that way) doesn't seem to strike you as racist.

Taxpayers come in all sorts. Whatever their colour or culture, all are entitled to a view of the RF. We tend to like decisions made by majorities, not pressure groups.

It is not and never will be all about one group. Of course, we should aim to treat people as equals - all people. If you keep moving the goalposts, however, and coming up with another sin others can commit, some will always be perceived to fail to come up to the new standard - however multicultural and tolerant they are.

People who take things to extremes for one group and one group only cannot be called egalitarian. They are not interested in equality for all.

www.rd.com/article/stop-asking-people-of-color-where-theyre-from/

I just thought I'd pop this reference in for Bunty and others asking, "why is it racist". it's written in the US, but same points made.

There also has to be a difference between those who work as representatives of the UK, in public life, and personal life. If an elderly person I knew voiced racist views, I might try to gently engage them, but not expose them as such.

And btw, its a bit agist to say, "oh well but she IS 83?' Now come on, gransnetters, now that is offensive, unless the person clearly has dementia or similar!

DaisyAnne

tickingbird

Which woman, the old one or the young one ? Both were abused.

The difference is the old one hasn’t said a word on social media.

And you have to ask why this has been blown up out of all proportion. As was asked on the other thread. What exactly do people want to happen to SH? What more can be done to her. Nothing will turn the clock back and she has lost much of what she valued in her life.

Seriously those of your who are continuing this. What more do you want?

For the royal family to work on weeding out the racism in and surrounding them.

The tax payer pays for them. Many of those tax payers are not white. If the RF is to continue, it needs to work for all British citizens. Not just for the wealthy white ones.

tickingbird

^Which woman, the old one or the young one ? Both were abused.^

The difference is the old one hasn’t said a word on social media.

And you have to ask why this has been blown up out of all proportion. As was asked on the other thread. What exactly do people want to happen to SH? What more can be done to her. Nothing will turn the clock back and she has lost much of what she valued in her life.

Seriously those of your who are continuing this. What more do you want?

vegansrock

Racism is well and truly alive in the U.K., if the amount of online abuse this woman has received is anything to go by.

Why do you keep needing to say this? No one, not at person, is saying it doesn't. However, that is only one part of the problem. I will keep repeating these two truths as you seem prepared to ignore one of them:

1) There is racism in the UK
2) We are in a process of change

Summerlove

Why do people who are hurt by racism need to compromise?

It’s really not hard to not do or say racist things. To apologise if you screw up. To be anti racist.

By saying both sides need to compromise and to essentially say there are hood and bad people on both sides, completely undermines any anti racist steps people take.

This is so disheartening how many people refuse to listen. To see how some actions might be wrong. Instead they get defensive and dig in.

Why do people who are hurt by racism need to compromise?

Obviously, that was not what I said. However, we all need to compromise. Why? Because, at its extreme, the lack of compromise leads to war. Even at its least extreme, a lack of ability to compromise leads to an inability to move forward.

I have just been reading my granddaughter's end-of-year school report. One of the modules she did was called "The same, the same but different". It investigated "the diverse nature of the Australian population, recognising and celebrating our differences".

I think a few of the most extremely inclined Grannies on GN could do with such a course. It really can never be a case that only one, self-defined group, matters. We do all have to live together; to find a way to do so there have to be concessions from everyone.

(By the way, you are another person who re-interpreted what I said to ask a very biased question in an attempt to discredit my character. I will start report these if it happens again. It is slanderous.)