With reference to the recent issue with Lady Susan and Ngosi Fulani- at what stage does someone become British?

I'm not sure which countries will not allow dual nationality now.
We know people of many nationalities who live in Australia, married to Australians but would like their children to have dual nationality ie Australian and the native country of one parent.
Denmark was one, I'm not sure if that is still the case.

LRavenscroft

Allsorts

Where your heart is.

I agree. In addition, for me, it is where I built the informative years of my childhood. Being multilingual gives me insight into several European cultures which I love and appreciate but no one will ever take the Britishness out of me - it's where I grew up and is part of the very fibre of my being irrespective of my blood line.

Great post. However I am genuinely interested- would this inate Britishness preven you from acquiring another nationality of where you would settle, marry, study, work, have your children, and much more- which would also feel a natural part of you?

Grandetante, not true in Spain either. DGS was born there and has a Spanish birth certificate, but because neither parent is Spanish, he is British only.

Not sure where you got your information from, but it is just not true.

child acquires Swiss citizenship at birth by either:

Being the child of a married couple of whom at least one parent is Swiss.[2]

Being the child of a Swiss mother not married to the child's father.[3]

France has birthright citizenship. However, that does not mean that children born in France or one of the 13 overseas territories automatically receive French citizenship. Instead, they will get the nationality of their parents. If the parents are foreign nationals, the children, too, will be foreign nationals.

Perhaps you did not read my posts grandtante-

if a person integrates fully (and that does not mean never criticising any aspect of the country)- learns the language, works, contributes, pays taxes, etc, etc- and the papers are signed, stamped and delivered- and decades ago- what then?
For some people it seems clear that they go back to the 'born here of British parents born here', and nothing else will do.

Is that right, do you believe?

Flurpeper DB-dear brother.
What did you expect means just that.
If you split yourself off from somewhere then the rules might well change.
As to how my DB works in Germany with no problems, I don’t know-but I’ll ask him what, if any hoops he had to jump through.

In most countries you are a citizen if you were born in the country concerned of parents who were citizens.

You are thus British if born in Britain of British parents.
Children of British parents working and living in other countries at the time of the baby's birth probably have to register the child as British at the nearest British Embassy.

You become a citizen of a country you were not born in and that your parents were not citizens of, by the legal process known as naturalization, which often, but not always requires you to give up you former citizenship. And a naturalized citizen is not a citizen until the naturalization papers are signed, stamped and delivered to the person.

France is an exception to these rules, as any child born in France has the right to be regarded as a French citizen. I think the same applies to Switzerland and to the USA.

You do not become a citizen simply be living in a country, irrespective of how many years you live there.

MerylStreep

Fleurpepper

Mollygro- travel is one thing- but what if you want to settle there and work. A British passport these days will not be any good in Europe, and vice-versa.

How did my ex husband retire to Spain in 2019?
How does my friend, a Shipright go to Spain regularly to work on boats.

2019 was before the Brexit deadline of 1.01.2020.

Work on boats probably covered by special permit, with employer requesting work permit.

Mollygrow- what do you mean by 'what did you expect'. It is no longer possible for anyone from Europe to come to UK to work, even if they learn the language, let alone get nationality, post Brexit.

It is possible to work in the EU if you are in a niche market, but the employer in Germany has to apply for work permit for you and make a special case for employing someone from UK since 01.01.20. So either your DB (what does is mean please)- was there before deadline, or they have special status, with employer doing as described above. No-one from UK (and vice-versa) and now go to Europe to look for work- employer there has to apply, and make special case. Just as it was, btw, before 1973 in uk for Europeans to come and work here.

In those days, people also had to retake driving licence in full, and all sorts of shenanigans.

Fleurpepper

Mollygro- travel is one thing- but what if you want to settle there and work. A British passport these days will not be any good in Europe, and vice-versa.

So what did you expect?
If you want to live and work somewhere else-why not apply for citizenship there?
Why not learn to speak the language there?
I said travel-work may well be a different issue.
(Incidentally, one DB, with a British passport, is working in Germany, without problems.)

Fleurpepper

Mollygro- travel is one thing- but what if you want to settle there and work. A British passport these days will not be any good in Europe, and vice-versa.

How did my ex husband retire to Spain in 2019?
How does my friend, a Shipright go to Spain regularly to work on boats.

I guess when they choose to be?

There are probably people who have British nationality through living and working here but still describe themselves as French, as an example

People can be proud to be both

French-Britsih

🙃

My father was British, my mother German, however when they married in the forties, women automatically took the British husband's nationality. She spoke such good English that no-one realised that she was born German. I once asked what language she thought in and she said English. She regarded herself as British. Annoyingly because of her taking my father's nationality I wasn't able to get a German passport after Brexit, despite being born in Hamburg!

Mollygro- travel is one thing- but what if you want to settle there and work. A British passport these days will not be any good in Europe, and vice-versa.

Sorry GagaJo I interpreted your initial comment wrongly.

You have to have British nationality, if you want a British Passport, but since you can travel to and from Britain with a passport from wherever you hold nationality it’s not a problem.
As for criticising the country where you are living-why not?
I remember vehemently criticising the French when I lived there during the strikes that left me shopping in the dark and again when the student lodgings for my DD were infested with cockroaches. I could criticise them in fluent French too.
What I do mind is those who come here or go to any country and make no effort to learn the language. -mind you I’m really struggling with Welsh!

Yes, imagine going to live in Spain as a young Brit, integrate, learn the language, marry a local, work there, contribute fully to the country, pay your taxes, have the right to vote and become of Councillor, local or even high ranking politician, etc, etc -

would it be wrong to oppose bull-fighting, for instance, or racism shown towards North Africans, or the excesses of the Catholic Church, or anything else. And oppose any move towards the far right and return to fascism, if it happened? Or ???

Do you truly believe that going to live in another country to the one you were born in, renders you invisible, blind, deaf and mute?

well I get what you are saying, and yet. If you are working and contributing fully to the country you have taken the nationality of, paying your taxes, having taken the trouble to learn the language fluently, why should you not be able to love and admire some bits, and criticise others? I totally agree with this. I love the bits of Britishness that we've gathered from other nationalities. They enrich our culture.

Not for nothing is the Brit's favourite food a curry.

Galaxy

And does it matter? I know individual anecdotes dont prove anything, but my father was/is in many ways more loyal to his community than I am. He is always 'in the middle' of his local community, much more involved in helping out his neighbours than I am. Yet for most of his life in this country he hasnt been British, whereas I have.

Yes, my ex husband too. Very obviously not British. Doesn't identify as British. But loves his community. Is very embedded in the area. Local events. Neighbours. Whereas I, despite being British, have none of that local involvement.

Mamie

I think the interesting question is why people need or want to acquire nationality. If we were young working people needing to cross EU borders to work then it would make sense for us. I completely understand why EU citizens in the UK now feel they need it, as do others vulnerable to changing policies in a host nation.
If our host nation is happy to accept us as we are and we behave within the requirements of that nation and make a positive contribution to it, then I am not sure why we have to "become" anything.
As for "where are you from" there can be a line of intent in the question between curiosity and racism. I think it should be pretty clear when that line is crossed.

Age and timing, perhaps. If you go and live in a country, and choose to live there for the rest of your life - especially if married to someone from that country, it is about integration, and also making life easier. Anyone who came to the UK, for instance, before we joined the EU, would have found it very difficult to remain in the country and have the right to work, unless they took on British Nationality.

At the time, and sadly again now post Brexit- 'the host nation is not happy to accept us as we are'.

Allsorts 'What does annoy me is that people that acquire it spend so much time trying to alter the country or peopIe. think if you dislike your country so much you should seek a better life in one where your heart is.'

well I get what you are saying, and yet. If you are working and contributing fully to the country you have taken the nationality of, paying your taxes, having taken the trouble to learn the language fluently, why should you not be able to love and admire some bits, and criticise others? This especially if what they loved about that country changes hugely suddenly, because a decision was made that they did not support? (and yes, in this case I am talking about Brexit, and the mess and divisions it has created) especially if this is affecting them and their family hugely?

Why is criticism of some parts, mean that your heart is not in it? Do you think those people should not be allowed to vote, or to take part in politics, become politicians even? Because they were born elsewhere?

Yes, it has wandered from being a technical and legal point to national characteristics, foxie48.

Something different.

grannydarkhair

When one really does believe that a cup of tea cures all ills.

Oh yes! Given birth? Cup of tea. Fuzzy head in the morning? cup of tea.

For me, cancer diagnois. Cup of tea.

TBH I think you're discussing culture rather than Nationality on this thread and tangling up culture with Nationality worries me as it could easily start to define how "British" people behave when it is actually about, how white British people behave". I remember the "Tebbit" cricket test which IMV was very racist. We are a diverse multicultural country and trying to define "Britishness" is dangerous because it actually doesn't exist except as a legal entity.

When one really does believe that a cup of tea cures all ills.

at what stage does someone become British?

Technically at the point one obtains British nationality whether by being born and registered here or being granted British citizenship or becoming a British national.


Wherever in the world someone is born, perhaps going to school here, mixing with others from many different countries as well as Britain, in a British school may be a factor?