With reference to the recent issue with Lady Susan and Ngosi Fulani- at what stage does someone become British?

It’s all explained on the Gov.uk website link below.

www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality

Blossoming, that is the theory- the reality on the ground is VERY VERY different, Especially for those like Ngosi who happen ot look 'different', but for all those who acquired nationality as children, teenagers or young adults.

This here is a spoof- to illustrate what I am saying. But it is very close to the everyday truth in RL

www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAv5ttax2I

I have no further comment to make, I am not interested in an online argument.

Our son has taken Spanish nationality (he has a Spanish wife and Spanish children). Taking Spanish nationality means that he gives up British nationality.
Is he no longer British at all?
I have no idea.

Nationality is according to the link posted by Blossoming If you are British according to that link, you are British. It doesn't change the "reality" of anything. I have a nephew and niece who live abroad, they speak adequate English with a strong accent as they left the UK as very young children, if you met them you might think they had a different nationality, but they are British. What someone else thinks is of no consequence. I am rather struggling to understand what you are asking.

Isn't it different for different people?

For some, it's being born here.

For some, it is having British parents, even though the child is born overseas (knew someone like this in the US. He regarded himself as half British).

For others, yes, it's getting citizenship. A friend of mine gained citizenship 2 years ago after living here for years. He is very happily and enthusiastically aquiring the 'lingo'.

I think for those that come here as children, they absorb it while at school. Although my DGS currently has our Southern accent, despite only every having lived in the NE of the UK.

Sorry, forgot to add!

I was never more British than when I lived in the USA. Strangely, less so in the other countries I've lived in. I always felt far more foreign in the US.

Blossoming

I have no further comment to make, I am not interested in an online argument.

Argument? Where is the argument? This is a discussion, why does it have to be an argument?

I also think it is very individual. Our son lived for 21 years in the UK and now 30 years living and working in Spain. He is fluent in Spanish (98% in citizenship language exam). Probably still supports England, then Spain for football.
We don't have French citizenship, still feel British, though after 17 years France is increasingly my country.
DH supports France for football, England for rugby and cricket.
What do you think Fleurpepper?

I wonder if we aren't confusing Nationality with Ethnicity, Race and Culture?

foxie48

Nationality is according to the link posted by Blossoming If you are British according to that link, you are British. It doesn't change the "reality" of anything. I have a nephew and niece who live abroad, they speak adequate English with a strong accent as they left the UK as very young children, if you met them you might think they had a different nationality, but they are British. What someone else thinks is of no consequence. I am rather struggling to understand what you are asking.

On one side, is the Law, on the other side, is the perception and reaction of other British people (goes for other nationalities elsewhere btw). Yes, The Law is clear- but the every day reality can be very different. Did you watch the video I linked? Did you follow the story about the meeting with Lady Susan? Have you got friends of relatives who have told you about being treated very differently- because they somehow are not considered as 'properly British' due to birth elsewhere, parents who are from elsewhere, colour, ethnicity, accent? (something I myself have never ever come across, until recently on GN).

Fleurpepper It isn't the theory, it is the facts. The government has legally defined how someone becomes a British citizen, by birth or other measures

What you are referring to is the way individuals react to different people of different ethnicity, which is something entirely different and is described as 'racism'

Mamie

I also think it is very individual. Our son lived for 21 years in the UK and now 30 years living and working in Spain. He is fluent in Spanish (98% in citizenship language exam). Probably still supports England, then Spain for football.
We don't have French citizenship, still feel British, though after 17 years France is increasingly my country.
DH supports France for football, England for rugby and cricket.
What do you think Fleurpepper?

Yes, love this. So many in our family and friends do have those x overs, often multiple times. It makes life so interesting, and personally, I have never experienced any issues, and neither has OH, who is even more more 'mixed' than most- but it doesn't 'show'.

Foxie, no confusion- but they are all facets of how people perceive others, and how individual, families even, feel about it all. As Mamie says, it can get complicated- but in a very positive way.

I can imagine how it gets to really 'grate' when how they feel is questionned, again and again. Either in an unplesant way, or very condescending way. Something I have never experienced, in 52 years, until I joined GN. But is is a general question and discussion.

M0nica

Fleurpepper It isn't the theory, it is the facts. The government has legally defined how someone becomes a British citizen, by birth or other measures

What you are referring to is the way individuals react to different people of different ethnicity, which is something entirely different and is described as 'racism'

Racism usually only occurs if the individual is not white though. What happens if the person is ethnically caucasian but with an original non-British nationality (such as my friend who has recently become British)? He gets discriminated against at times because he is 'different' (in his mannerisms, his speech, his approach to things) but it isn't racism.

We also have a very 'mixed' family, apart from boring old white me. But we see it as wonderful, a living example of a melting pot, culminating in my stunningly gorgeous (I'm biased of course) DGS.

If you met Miss Fulani I don't think British would be your first thought, specially in that outfit!

Mamie

Our son has taken Spanish nationality (he has a Spanish wife and Spanish children). Taking Spanish nationality means that he gives up British nationality.
Is he no longer British at all?
I have no idea.

Does he not have dual nationality....my son born in the UK now has Canadian citizen ship and a Canadian passport...he travels everywhere on his Canadian passport....unless he comes home to the UK....he considers himself british if asked

GagaJo Lots of people get discriminated all the time for all kinds of reasons. It shouldn't be acceptable, but it happens.

1) The day you are born in Great Britain
2) At the point where you acquire British Nationality and a British Passport

kircubbin2000

If you met Miss Fulani I don't think British would be your first thought, specially in that outfit!

Why ever not? She's British, as is my future son-in-law - born and raised in Manchester, British public school, British universities, slight Manc accent. He has brown skin and black curly hair and has experienced all sorts of racist comments.

M0nica

GagaJo Lots of people get discriminated all the time for all kinds of reasons. It shouldn't be acceptable, but it happens.

So we ignore it, do we?

I'm not sure! my first husband wasn't British but applied for citizenship after we married, although he really loved England, like many who come from overseas, memories and nostalgia are somewhere else so in a way it's quite normal to straddle two cultures. At the same time I think it's quite possible to develop a love for the country you adopt, At one time we were going to go and live in Australia ,we did the gruelling interview at Australia House and got our residents' visas, he did confess to me, having dipped our toes in the water over there for a short while, there were many things he told me he'd miss about England, not least of all the seasons when contemplating a life of constant hot weather. I think he loved what he considered idiosyncratic British behaviour. He could never quite understand why I didn't embrace something as typically English "As only Fools and Horses" the way he did, it was alright, but unlike him I don't think it was the best thing on TV. ever! Anyway he's still here! with a Belgian wife, of many years now, so presumably he may have spent his time since we parted! imbuing her with the delightful Del Boy!

My extended family, grandparents etc. came from all over the place the leaving of somewhere else was more absolute then that is my perception, once you'd left you'd left from whence you came, communication was by letters so definitely a different mindset than today where courtesy of the internet you can stay pretty in touch with the home country. One of my grandfathers sounded so foreign to my ears but from what I could garner , he seemed to think England was a good place to be, I have no idea whether he felt British even if he didn't sound it. .

Where your heart is.