Charles may pay for Andrew's security

Why are you saying this to me? Sorry, I just don't understand what you are getting at?

Anniebach

Men like Andrew and the many celebrity men don’t have to look for girls exploited for sex, why can it not be said , there are
girls eager for flings with these men , probably in the hope of long term .

I agree. I am aware of how this happens with high-level sportsmen, along the same lines. DS was at the high level for a few years and he told me that he could have had any girl he wanted during that time. Sports groupies were always enthusiastically available to these men, no matter how unattractive the men were .
If a man is / was a prince , I'd guess that he'd never have to work too hard to find willing partners.

Do you honestly think the RF would strip PA of all his duties for this one offence? There is a lot we are not being told and likely many,many other unsavoury incidences.

Hugh Grant
Tiger Woods
Charlie Sheen
There is a long list of Male stars, sportsmen etc who have used prostitutes, PA really wouldnt be unique.

nanna8 Yes I do believe the rf would strip PA of duties for the one error of judgement... not an offence as not been before a court!.
it was being dragged out so the issue couldn't be allowed to ruin the 'firm' .

where's m & h,

VioletSky

How many would be happy for their daughter or granddaughter to be alone with him?

My daughter or granddaughter would never have been in his presence in the role of a "party girl" who would be willing to have sex with him in exchange for money. Being too stupid and/or arrogant to recognise the fact that it may indeed have been a role, scripted by a procurer, rehearsed and coached to perfection with other audiences and performed enthusiastically by someone dazzled by his social position doesn't make him a dangerous rapist likely to ravish ten women a day.

That isn't a defence of his attitude of entitlement or his misogyny in treating women as he would treat a gourmet meal - no more than a pleasant way to spend an evening, prepared for his delight by experts, enjoyed briefly, paid for and then forgotten.

"My daughter is granddaughter would never be in that role"

So what's different about the girls who do end up sex trafficked?

Guiffre's dad used to drive her to those parties. I wouldn't have.

So having terrible parents or a bad childhood in some way somehow makes them deserving of being sex trafficked?

Does that not lead back to how I said too many in society write these girls off?

Or do you think the same girl raised in your family would take the same path?

Women who sell sex very often have a history of child abuse, we cant just ignore those children or the young women they grow into.

So the question still stands

Would we be happy for our 16 year old daughters or grandaughters to be alone with him?

Whether or not we believe it could happen to them is irrelevant unless that's some sort of judgement on the girls themselves, it's not a valid answer

It is a valid answer. As the situation would simply never arise in our family. You asked about our daughters and that's my valid answer

No the question doesn’t still stand unless you also accept that all decisions about sex made by and for 16 year olds also stand.
The father who drive his daughter there . . . Did he think about what might go on? Did his daughter tell him?
I think we have a role in protecting sixteen year olds. Scotland thinks they’re old enough to make their own decisions.

It's not sensible to ask a question about a specific circumstance (which has nothing to do with the situation) and then reject the answer because it is also based on that specific circumstance.

As people keep saying, whether we believe PA to be guilty or innocent isn't the point here - it is the fact that he needs security. Would you rather the bill came from the public purse?

My answer is still the same

I'd pay security for his home and very public events. I would not pay for him to have security to go anywhere else

His involvement in funding sex trafficking and the fact that these young girls are someone's daughters and grandaughters and deserve better no matter any ones opinion of them remains my reason for my answer.

VioletSky

So the question still stands

Would we be happy for our 16 year old daughters or grandaughters to be alone with him?

Whether or not we believe it could happen to them is irrelevant unless that's some sort of judgement on the girls themselves, it's not a valid answer

We're all different in our approach to raising children. Additionally, the post was about the King paying security for his brother.

I'll answer for me, not to debate my children raising thoughts, but because you asked VioletSky.

We'd not be happy if our 16 year old daughters or granddaughters were alone with any not-related adult man. PA is not exempt. We'd also not drive and drop-off our 16 yr old to an adult party. Not safe.

VioletSky

My answer is still the same

I'd pay security for his home and very public events. I would not pay for him to have security to go anywhere else

His involvement in funding sex trafficking and the fact that these young girls are someone's daughters and grandaughters and deserve better no matter any ones opinion of them remains my reason for my answer.

People have been arguing against my answer and my reason for it for several pages now

This is my answer, agree or don't, I've tried to understand those who don't and failed

I answered that question 2 days ago, and as well as saying I wouldn't be happy with my 16/17 D or GD (she was 17 at the time of the alleged incident) being at a party with older men, I also said as Aveline has, that I wouldn't be dropping a young woman of that age off at those parties, which her father used to do.

PA was accused of having sex with a 17 year old who'd been trafficked for sex. I don't recall any suggestion that he paid for this himself and because the case never went to trial, any evidence that he did have sex with her, and if so knew that she was a victim of sex trafficking.

I agree with your post @ 9.26 Elegran and that it isn't a defence of PA's lack or morality and lack of respect for women.

My answer remains the same

I'm sure it does VioletSky!

I’m sure it does, vs.

You asked whether we would be happy for our daughters or granddaughters to be alone with him. My answer, and that of others, is that my daughters and granddaughters would not be alone with him as a sex object for his entertainment . they would have expected to be valued for other reasons that that. Had they been alone with him, it would have been because of their expertise in some other field, and they would have left at any sign of inappropriate actions or words. That would apply at any age.

At seventeen, it would have been remarkable if they had had the qualifications or careers to be consulted as principles on any subject, so they would be highly unlikely to be alone with P{A for any non-sexual reason either.

If as an adult, and on her own initiative a woman chooses to make herself available for servicing the sexual demands of someone with large amounts of both money and social clout, then presumably it is up to her and no business of anyone on Gransnet and we are not interfering in anyone else's morals or financial decisions? Because if we are, we will have a fulltime job patrolling the pubs clubs and streetcorners of the world.

VS is concerned for those girls whose self-valuations are lower, who would feel flattered to (as they see it) be picked out for special attention because of their beauty of attractive personalities, when it is mostly their availability andcompliance which qualifies them. That is a reason for raising daughters to see that they have more aspects to their personalities than being physically attractive and complying with men's desires. Plus, of course, sons should be raised to recognise those other aspects in the girls they meet, as well as their obvious charms. Much of that early conditioning is by unconscious influencing and example, so don't expect an instant revolution in society too soon.

The natural evolutionary purpose of sex is the continuation of the species by vigorous young individuals breeding a healthy new generation, which will be able to breed a further generation as soon as they are mature. In humans, that is slowed down by most cultures wanting young people to finish their mastering of the complications of living in that society and establishing homes before having families. However the instinctive preference is to choose a fresh young mate over an older one. That is at odds with the more "civilised" concept of "too young"

I've given my answer, and stated why I have given it

I've also answered further questions and statements related to my answer

The question I asked was, would you be happy for your daughter or granddaughter to be alone with him?

The answers are very complicated but do not actually answer

So I have stopped asking

Do you think you can all manage to stop before new year?

Smileless2012

I answered that question 2 days ago, and as well as saying I wouldn't be happy with my 16/17 D or GD (she was 17 at the time of the alleged incident) being at a party with older men, I also said as Aveline has, that I wouldn't be dropping a young woman of that age off at those parties, which her father used to do.

PA was accused of having sex with a 17 year old who'd been trafficked for sex. I don't recall any suggestion that he paid for this himself and because the case never went to trial, any evidence that he did have sex with her, and if so knew that she was a victim of sex trafficking.

I agree with your post @ 9.26 Elegran and that it isn't a defence of PA's lack or morality and lack of respect for women.

Everybody is saying the same thing, VioletSky, in their own words. Have been for 2 days. I seriously doubt we'll change.

I've said I have no idea if PA respects women, has morals, or any other negative people lay on him. I don't know him apart from what I read about him on GN/MN, and I doubt he or his true confidantes are actually posting. I also doubt the veracity of "my best friend's nephew says" (and all other ludicrous statements), as people always paint any picture that fits their narrative.