Historic rape accusation, should we change behaviours?

A few years ago I was put in a difficult situation. A colleague of over 40 years ago contacted me and other people we worked with trying to collate evidence of a male colleague who she said sexually harassed her. I remember the man as being a bit touchy feely ( lots of men were in the 70s ) but I don’t remember being made to feel uncomfortable and actually liked the man.
I spoke to other people who felt the same as me. The man is almost 80 now and denied any knowledge or memory of the harassment.
The colleague wrote to us and strongly voiced that we had let her down. I do feel a little guilty and have been racking my brain on anything I have forgotten or missed but cannot.
I often think of her and worry she is living with this awful thing if true.

GagaJo

I agree, to a certain extent Delia.

But the fact is, the majority of women have suffered some kind of sexual assault (the me too movement). That is an awfully large amount of men committing those acts. I do understand not all men, but it is a horribly large number of men.

As feminists, we should support women who say they've been raped/assaulted. The chances are (statistically) that they're telling the truth. And the chances are (also statistically) that a man accused of sexual assault who is claiming innocence is not telling the truth.

We live in a patriarchal society that protects men, and live within a legal system that actively discriminates against women when it comes to rape. My money is on the woman making the accusation. Not the man claiming innocence.

By all means support.

Would you take a place on a jury?

GagaJo

I agree, to a certain extent Delia.

But the fact is, the majority of women have suffered some kind of sexual assault (the me too movement). That is an awfully large amount of men committing those acts. I do understand not all men, but it is a horribly large number of men.

As feminists, we should support women who say they've been raped/assaulted. The chances are (statistically) that they're telling the truth. And the chances are (also statistically) that a man accused of sexual assault who is claiming innocence is not telling the truth.

We live in a patriarchal society that protects men, and live within a legal system that actively discriminates against women when it comes to rape. My money is on the woman making the accusation. Not the man claiming innocence.

I will support the innocent and would never assume someone is guilty based on their gender, also a person is innocent till proved guilty.

Yes GagaJo the statistics are as you say, but it still has to be case by case.

The chances are (statistically) that they're telling the truth. And the chances are (also statistically) that a man accused of sexual assault who is claiming innocence is not telling the truth.
My money is on the woman making the accusation. Not the man claiming innocence.

This scares me. The possibility of a juror going onto a trial with that preconception which will undoubtedly colour their judgement precludes any chance of a fair trial. Imagine if it was your son or grandson who had been accused, would any of us want such an attitude on the jury?

If I were ever unfortunate enough to find myself on either side of an accusation of rape I hope I would have more to rely on than “chances” or “statistics” or prejudice before even a shred of evidence has been considered.

these things are v complex.
there was a case that led to a school shutting down.
a troubled teenager changed schools and had counselling from ? a teacher at the new school.
she formed a dependency on this woman, who told her that her troubles were due to repressed abuse experiences.
the girl, who lacked parental attention, wanted to please this woman, and eventually agreed that must be it.
the woman then urged her to tell the details, who was it, that she needed to do so in order to recover.
so the girl named a teacher at her former school.
he was arrested and charged.
he never taught the girl, she had no dealings with him at all.
she just picked out the name of one of the few men there.
she said the abuse happened in his form room at lunch time.
his room was on a busy corridor with glass door/walls.
also he held club meetings in the room during lunch hour. he was never there alone.
despite being found not guilty, his career was ruined, and his peace of mind.
also the school, which had a respected history, had to close down.
the girl probably had no notion of the consequences of trying to keep in with the one adult who gave her personal attention.

Traumatic for the girl and for the falsely accused teacher and an example of the damage that results from such a case, in which no crime was actually committed. Very sad.

Thats so sad and I can see how that could happen.

I would say convincing a child that they have experienced abuse is a form of emotional abuse so I am not so sure a crime wasnt committed.

The teacher who spoke to that child has broken every guideline with regard to safeguarding, there must have been numerous agencies involved in that failure of safeguarding.

I agree Galaxy.

Agreed.

Bits missing in the story. for major example, did the teacher who allegedly persuaded her do it as a matter of habit or a one off? if one off, what had child said? Why did she move schools? Was she bullied by classmates?

when i was a young 17yr old I used to visit my sister who was married to a policeman and lived in police flats in london.. when I left early evening for bus ride home there
would be Duncan another married policeman in his car who would offer a ride home, he would try to kiss me when we arrived.. His wife would have denied he would do such a thing I'm sure.

Wyllow3

Agreed.

Bits missing in the story. for major example, did the teacher who allegedly persuaded her do it as a matter of habit or a one off? if one off, what had child said? Why did she move schools? Was she bullied by classmates?

The problem is that abuse has many forms was the girl rejected or ignored by the teacher, was she teased or bullied by her class mates. There seems to be an epidemic of depression and mental illness amongst children due to online abuse, it’s an absolute minefield.

In Welbecks example the woman who “helped” the girl progress an abuse prosecution only for the teacher to be entirely blameless, was she really helping the girl by dragging her through the courts.?

It seems unlikely that the 'helping' teacher actually knew how to counsel someone, from the description.

Teachers are not allowed to counsel people with regard to safeguarding disclosures. Every teacher who walks through the doors of a school knows that, as does every TA, administrator etc.

I hate it when someone dies THEN the accusers emerge!!!
If it happened and you want to point the finger, then do it while they're alive and have a chance to defend themselves or come clean and admit it!
And, before you start, I WAS raped. No, I didn't report it, but I did eventually have counselling for it!!!

Well they tried with Saville when he was alive and no one believed them or rather colluded to cover it up.

lemsip

when i was a young 17yr old I used to visit my sister who was married to a policeman and lived in police flats in london.. when I left early evening for bus ride home there
would be Duncan another married policeman in his car who would offer a ride home, he would try to kiss me when we arrived.. His wife would have denied he would do such a thing I'm sure.

Exactly. No one ever thinks the men they know are capable of rape / sexual assault. Would stake their lives on it.

That’s a strange list of event wellbeck. As others have said, it breaches every safeguarding guidance that’s been in place for many years.

The Cleveland report 1987 investigated an increase in reports of child sexual abuse. Without getting into the detail, the recommendations set out clear guidelines. So 36 years ago Cleveland ruled out the scenario outlined.

If false allegations of rape or indecent behaviour made by women against men, and school-children against their teachers are rare in the UK, or even just where you live, you are very fortunate indeed.

Here they are relatively common - so much so, that most male school - and kindergarten teachers now refuse to be alone with small groups of children, and when they have to be, leave the classroom door open, so that other members of staff can see and hear what is going on in the classroom.

Home helps and district nurses have to be careful too, and it has again become standard practice for gynaecologists to have a nurse in attendence as a chaperone while he (or for that matter she) examines a patient.

But to answer OP's question: if the neighbour your husband helps shows no signs of dementia, I would not find it necessary to chaperone them, unless your husband feels there is something sligthly off in the atmosphere between them.

adults should always be more accountable than children, I can't believe some of the conversations on here recently

It’s very difficult to get any men interested in leadership or mentoring involving children, the risk of malicious accusation rules it out for them. 20 yrs ago when my sons were in Scouts they didn’t want to know, same with schools and other sports too.

I work in schools, pretty much every single one of them has men in senior leadership roles, I have been involved in junior football for 14 years, in that time, I met one female football coach.