XR says no more public disruption

No, I think my analogies are better.

But I would, wouldn't I? 🤣

The Government has the energy policy wrong, so I think the best way to get a change of policy is to alienate ordinary people who are the electorate and turn them against me and my message. That’ll do the trick🙄

The government - all governments - are going to have to grow some and do some unpopular things, irrespective of whether the electorate are against it or not.

Or you phone and say the buildings on fire and they say evacuate everyone now. But you say Right, I’m going hold a meeting to tell everyone about the dangers of fire.
It does mean I’ll have to light another fire so that everyone can see what I’m doing but it will be worth it to get my point across.

Or you go to the doctor and say I’m sick. You need to stop drinking he says. What! you say. Obviously it’s the Government’s responsibilty to ban alcohol. Not mine at all.

We can all make stuff up to push our point.

The Government has the energy policy wrong, so I think the best way to get a change of policy is to alienate ordinary people who are the electorate and turn them against me and my message. That’ll do the trick🙄

Katek

Here's a link to the IEA (Intl. Energy Agency) report on minerals needed for so-called ‘clean’ energy.

www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions/executive-summary

This shows the amount of minerals needed for ‘clean’ vs. conventional energy. The IEA are highly pro-renewables (as you’d expect) but even they say that we’ll need a big increase in mining for all this stuff and it’s mainly going to be in China, D.R. Congo etc.

Key charts are:

EVs use about 6X more minerals than conventional cars

image007.jpg


Windfarms use about 2X to 3X more than Nuclear per MW of power generated and about 8X to 13X more than Coal & Gas generation.

image008.jpg

Sorry KateK, just saw this.

It's not "so-called" clean energy. Its clean energy.

I'll not explain the total cost of ownership/lifetime emissions thing again, as people are probably fed up of it.

This only compares the minerals usage per MW generated. What about the emissions? What about the waste products? What about the cost and environmental impact of maintenance? What about the risk of accidents? The comparison of mineral usage is one thing to consider, there's lots of other things to consider as well and you can't make your mind up on just one of them

Except maybe nuclear waste. That's a deal breaker.

But risk being looked down on by those who do have the money to buy one, thus can claim to make a more important contribution to saving the planet than us poor non EV owners.

Bit of an inferiority complex there Mollygo.

(VD again. Who is that????)

It’s awful the way that ordinary people, whom after a dreadful 3 years have been inconvenienced by these strikes, they need more money too. Everyone is affected by price rises, not everyone will strike though.

The problem with XR and similar protests is that they don’t have any solutions to put forward- other than “the Government should do something about it”.

Imagine you work in an office block. The block catches fire and you phone the fire brigade. "The offices are on fire!" you shout down the phone. "Oh, that's awful", they say. "What are you going to do about it?" Well, I'm phoning you, because you have the power and the tools to do something about it.

"What, you don't know how to fix it? You can't phone me up telling me about problems and not know how to solve them!!"

Or you get sick and go to the doctor. "Oh that's terrible", they say. "What are you going to do about it?" I don't know, you say, you're the one with the power and the tools to do something about it! "What, you don't know what the solution is? You can't phone me up telling me about problems and not know how to solve them!!"

Now imagine that you can see the terrible impact our current energy policy is having on the country and you tell the government about it....

See where I'm going with this?

Rosie51
Your quote
Incidentally you were the one who posted buy an EV, do you honestly think they're within the price range of the average person, especially given the cost of living increases we're all subject to? I don't consider myself hard-up at all, but I couldn't afford one.
Makes me laugh. VD doesn’t actually care whether you can afford it or not. She thinks it’s a good answer and that’s all that matters.
No response to my question about the cost in time and fuel of running my non-electric car versus the cost of using public transport other than, Don’t buy one then.
But risk being looked down on by those who do have the money to buy one, thus can claim to make a more important contribution to saving the planet than us poor non EV owners.😱

XR I’ve changed it three times and it changes back.

The other problem is the image that X-RAY and others have created of themselves which has alienated the majority and so led to rejection of the message.

They’ve caused immeasurable harm.

The problem with XR and similar protests is that they don’t have any solutions to put forward- other than “the Government should do something about it”.

But everybody has their own way of living that they don’t want changed and it’s different for everybody. So nobody can agree on what it is they want the government to do.

People have such simplistic ideas and ideals but haven’t made any attempt to understand the complexities of every change. And they definitely don’t want change to affect them in any major way. People say I’m doing my bit, and believe they are offering a solution by being “good” about one tiny thing, whilst still creating ever more pollution in the other areas of their lives.

Your quite triggered by all this, aren't you?

volver

Rosie51

humantraffickingsearch.org/how-child-labour-could-be-fuelling-your-electric-car/

Child labour, and indeed all mining health risks need to be addressed before giving too many pats on the back to those able to afford an electric car. Or maybe we just don't care about people who mine this stuff so some can bask in their green credentials?

I read that article Rosie51 and it makes that point that greener technologies must not be advanced at the cost of human rights.

So its quite wrong to say that nobody cares about the people who mine this stuff, a completely misreading of the article and the approach being taken to resolve it.

I read the article. I didn't misread it. I did not indicate the article ignored the human abuse issues, in fact that's exactly why I linked to it, because it did refer to them.

Why did you change my maybe we just don't care about people who mine this stuff into nobody cares about the people who mine this stuff, when that was clearly not what I said? I was asking the question that maybe we/some don't care/consider the human costs involved in producing EV for those that can afford them. Incidentally you were the one who posted buy an EV, do you honestly think they're within the price range of the average person, especially given the cost of living increases we're all subject to? I don't consider myself hard-up at all, but I couldn't afford one.

No Volver you are not alone in defending X-RAY I am with you on this but you are better at putting the facts forward. I will say that larger number protesting will do the trick won’t necessarily work as the government hasn’t listened to the NHS workers. Why on earth can’t we use more water power to produce electricity..

volver

Callistemon21

volver

Recycling.

www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/electric-car-battery-recycling-all-you-need-to-know

Thanks volver

Where will all the lithium come from?
It was suggested the ocean bottoms could be a rich source but this could cause immense problems for life in the oceans.

I feel like I'm single handedly having to defend the EV industry🤣

I didn't know Callistemon so I googled it.

www.mckinsey.com/industries/metals-and-mining/our-insights/lithium-mining-how-new-production-technologies-could-fuel-the-global-ev-revolution

Thanks, interesting, I've skim-read and downloaded it.

No älskling, they're not.

Sorry, misread that post. Its another poster who is getting the benefit of my Google Translate skills, not M0nica. Sorry M0nica.

I do not need to pretend because they are.

No älskling, they're not.

Why would you be replacing your electric car after 5 years? That seems a bit profligate. Also, the thing about lifetime emissions from a 20 year old car being better than an EV? You need to check your maths.

Volver^don't pretend that their on-costs and ecological soundness is the problem.^

I do not need to pretend becsuse they are.

This year I had to replace a car Ihad owned and run for 14 years because someone else wrote it off. Were it not for that I might well have driven it until I died. The emissions from keeping a car, and not replacing it but running it for 20 years or more are infinitismal compared with running an EV and replacing it every 5 years.

I could afford an ev if Iwanted one, but I can think of better and more effective ways of spending my money.

ExperiencedNotOld

When XR and the like become less of a mob full of I’ll-protest-about-anything types - and stop funding those types on a daily rate to do that protesting - then I’ll give them the time of day.
There is a valid issue at the root of all this, but all their antics have gone so far is bring about negative press.
As regards gathering to protest - old time methods indeed.

Experiencednotold many of the XR ‘mob’ are not ‘I’ll protest about anything’ people, they are committed and very concerned individuals who are trying to bring about change so that their children and our Grandchildren get a world that is safe to live in, if that isn’t too late.

The Press can be negative or positive depending on how their pulse beats. Whether there is a valid reason or not.

Old time methods ?? Tried and tested maybe?

However, we are all capable of listening to our conscience or not, we know that there is a problem regarding Climate Change and for those of us who care we can all do our bit, but it has to be sorted by the various world Governments, how else can you get the various political parties to listen apart from peaceful protests?

Yes, absolutely. You have a very valid point XR, but I don't like your protestors so I'm going to do nothing about it, just to show you.

When XR and the like become less of a mob full of I’ll-protest-about-anything types - and stop funding those types on a daily rate to do that protesting - then I’ll give them the time of day.
There is a valid issue at the root of all this, but all their antics have gone so far is bring about negative press.
As regards gathering to protest - old time methods indeed.

The on costs of an EV are less than the on-costs of a vehicle with a combustion engine.

There you go, one less thing to worry about.

(Why do you call me VD?)

volver

Don't buy one then.

It isn't compulsory. Keep your car. Buy a combustion engine one. Buy an EV later when they are cheaper 🤷🏼

But for goodness sake, don't pretend that their on-costs and ecological soundness is the problem.

I didn’t pretend anything, VD. I mentioned on-costs such as batteries, fuel etc because that’s what I, and most people think about when buying a new car.
If you don’t need to have those considerations, or you don’t think any of the problems re EV are important, lucky you.

Here's a link to the IEA (Intl. Energy Agency) report on minerals needed for so-called ‘clean’ energy.

www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions/executive-summary

This shows the amount of minerals needed for ‘clean’ vs. conventional energy. The IEA are highly pro-renewables (as you’d expect) but even they say that we’ll need a big increase in mining for all this stuff and it’s mainly going to be in China, D.R. Congo etc.

Key charts are:

EVs use about 6X more minerals than conventional cars

image007.jpg


Windfarms use about 2X to 3X more than Nuclear per MW of power generated and about 8X to 13X more than Coal & Gas generation.

image008.jpg

Don't buy one then.

It isn't compulsory. Keep your car. Buy a combustion engine one. Buy an EV later when they are cheaper 🤷🏼

But for goodness sake, don't pretend that their on-costs and ecological soundness is the problem.

Buy an EV.
Can’t afford it.
But would you say that, in that case I should exchange my 20min drive for a 2 different buses and 15 minute walk to work and the same back at the end of the day. The buses have currently been capped at £2 per journey, which is a saving.
Should we exchange our £120 fuel costs and door to door convenience for approx £300 return rail fares (if booked 6 weeks in advance) to go and see our family?
We have changed a lot of what what we do with regard to environmental concerns, but Buy an EV even without the concerns raised about their on-costs and ecological soundness is beyond us, and many others I suspect.