Public speaking

I'm not sure why giving presentations is regarded as an essential part of working life tbh! Grandmabatty's options sound very sensible. Listening and speaking are important skills but surely they can be learned in ways other than standing in front of the entire class and giving a presentation.

Introverted children or shy children (not the same things) would find this harder than confident extroverted children. It could be a good experience for the children who find it harder - if they got appropriate support and experience before talking to the whole class. Maybe worth looking for a child psychotherapist to help here - this could deal with fears the child hardly knows how to articulate at the moment, and might help him for the years to come. I wish him well and hope the teacher will understand - she is in a challenging spot too, if this in on the curriculum. Some preliminary sessions where e.g. three children make short presentations to each other might help.

Thats awful poor boy. I would have been the same at his age I would have hated having to do something like that.

Being able to speak in public is a very useful skill and not only for white collar people. Speaking up on the shop floor about safety concerns is important. Parish Councils attract a wide range of backgrounds. Speaking at a planning appeal is often needed. Proposing the toast to the bride and groom. Saying a few words at someone's retirement party.

enabenn

This is an old post. Why are we still talking about it

I don't know what is classified as old?

🤔

This is an old post. Why are we still talking about it

But the north does have bursars. Just because you work at a school that only has a lowly paid secretary, (and I’ve yet to find a school that only has a lowly paid ‘secretary’ nowadays), it doesn’t mean that no other schools in the north have bursars or school business managers or administration assistants or anybody the variety of titles which mean they do more than just secretarial work.

Love your ‘gentrification’. A rather snobby way of explaining words that seem to make you feel uncomfortable.

If you’ve worked in a school recently, you would know that phone calls go to the office, so that the person can be directed to the appropriate member of staff or arrange an appointment. Visitors to the school are greeted by the office staff (bursar/office manager/ school business manager/administration manager/ admin assistant etc,) and directed to the appropriate place, member of staff or enabled to arrange an appointment.
The office staff (bursar/office manager/ school business manager/administration manager/ admin assistant etc,
also respond to parents arriving to collect a child early. All this in addition to the financial and other tasks necessary to keep a school running.
As for them acting as a means of communication between parents teachers and head teachers, perhaps that's one of the great problems with primary education today
The more you say about that, the more obvious it is that you don’t understand the communication, but that’s your problem.
They aren’t like GP receptionists, they don’t make decisions about who you can see and when and what for.
At your school, are you saying that parents walk into the reception area, are ignored by your lowly paid ‘secretary’ and the head senses their presence and immediately abandons phone calls, meetings, dealing with children etc. to go and deal with every parent who arrives? I don’t believe it.

Mollygo

Glorianny
I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.
Who has said all schools have bursars-that’s just your assumption.
That’s as silly and incorrect as your assumption that because I mentioned Manchester I don’t work any further north.

I can certainly recognise your b******t, which evidently means that because you haven’t come across bursars and other titles for the school administration staff, they either don’t exist.
Not sure how many schools and where they are that you have visited, not to have updated your knowledge of what bursars/business managers/ administrators etc do and get paid.

Regardless of all that and your apparent lack of knowledge, the school office staff, whether you have heard of the titles or not are the first line of communication in any school, unless you catch the head in the playground before school, or the class teacher after school.
If you want to be amused by it, I’m sure they won’t care.

Sorry Mollygo if you don't recognise the "gentrification" of roles in schools by giving them titles that they never needed I'm not responsible. It is of course closely linked to the lack of involvement of LEAs who were once responsible for much of the admin etc.
If you were to draw a parallel with something you could use the concept of the NHS which is constantly berated for there being too many managers, but apparently more managers are desirable in education.. If they are getting paid more what a waste of money.

As I said look at the report and wonder why the North doesn't have them.
It does amuse me how people imagine that calling someone a bursar or a manager somehow means they are more important.
As for them acting as a means of communication between parents teachers and head teachers, perhaps that's one of the great problems with primary education today

Glorianny
I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.
Who has said all schools have bursars-that’s just your assumption.
That’s as silly and incorrect as your assumption that because I mentioned Manchester I don’t work any further north.

I can certainly recognise your b******t, which evidently means that because you haven’t come across bursars and other titles for the school administration staff, they either don’t exist.
Not sure how many schools and where they are that you have visited, not to have updated your knowledge of what bursars/business managers/ administrators etc do and get paid.

Regardless of all that and your apparent lack of knowledge, the school office staff, whether you have heard of the titles or not are the first line of communication in any school, unless you catch the head in the playground before school, or the class teacher after school.
If you want to be amused by it, I’m sure they won’t care.

Mollygo

Glorianny

I've been in many primary schools never met a bursar, or a school manager. I have met school secretaries who did the whole lot for next to nothing. I wonder if it's an Academies thing? Posh titles like public schools?
I do know what bursars are in universities and private schools. But as I said not in state primaries. And I've been in all sizes. From 3 form intakes to part time teaching heads.

No it’s not just academies-but maybe it is applicable to different parts of the country.
My experience at sundry primaries for what it’s worth,
In a Norfolk primary, I was introduced to the Business Manager.
In Southampton I met-bursars or business manager with or without additional secretarial staff depending on size of school
Greater Manchester -Business manager or office manager, with or without
additional secretarial staff depending on size of school.
Further north, likewise, plus administrative assistants, school business partner-except in some smaller schools where the title was secretary, even though they did the multitudinous tasks carried out by office managers/bursars plus secretarial tasks.
They’re the more up to date titles, like NQTs are now Early Careers Teachers (ECT).
It doesn’t actually matter whether you know what they’re called, only that they are the people who will connect you with the head or class teachers, unless you can ‘grab one at the end of the day’.

I fully accept it isn't just academies. I do wonder about the North/South divide, which really does exist if you care to look atthe link I provided and I note you haven't been further North than Manchester (which is borderline south for many of us.)

And of course school secretaries have done much of the managing, usually without much in the way of remuneration. I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.Perhaps that's why it hasn't caught on up-North. We recognise bull shit when we see it.

Glorianny

I've been in many primary schools never met a bursar, or a school manager. I have met school secretaries who did the whole lot for next to nothing. I wonder if it's an Academies thing? Posh titles like public schools?
I do know what bursars are in universities and private schools. But as I said not in state primaries. And I've been in all sizes. From 3 form intakes to part time teaching heads.

No it’s not just academies-but maybe it is applicable to different parts of the country.
My experience at sundry primaries for what it’s worth,
In a Norfolk primary, I was introduced to the Business Manager.
In Southampton I met-bursars or business manager with or without additional secretarial staff depending on size of school
Greater Manchester -Business manager or office manager, with or without
additional secretarial staff depending on size of school.
Further north, likewise, plus administrative assistants, school business partner-except in some smaller schools where the title was secretary, even though they did the multitudinous tasks carried out by office managers/bursars plus secretarial tasks.
They’re the more up to date titles, like NQTs are now Early Careers Teachers (ECT).
It doesn’t actually matter whether you know what they’re called, only that they are the people who will connect you with the head or class teachers, unless you can ‘grab one at the end of the day’.

I know.
We’d gone off piste

We're in Scotland!

FannyCornforth

Yes! Grab him! We speak as one!
I’m in the East Midlands btw

If you have time to look at the report (I tried to cut and paste the image but couldn't) if you drew a line across England around the Humber (think old Northumbria kingdom) there was only one response from North of that line. There were differing numbers and many more responses from south of it.

Yes! Grab him! We speak as one!
I’m in the East Midlands btw

I think I have found out why. This report has a map in it showing responses from areas about school managers. The north had only one report. There were many more from the south dera.ioe.ac.uk/8212/1/school-business-managers-full-report.pdf
Interesting!

FannyCornforth

Glorianny

At my GCs school the same process seems to operate for speaking to the teacher that did when I was teaching. Grab her as she's trying to make sure every child has a parent to collect them.

The teacher is a man

OK Grab him (talk about quibbling over the details!)

All our local state primary schools (not academies) have had Bursars.

I have had dealings with at least 12 Primary Schools in the past six years, and they have all had a School Business Manager

Glorianny

At my GCs school the same process seems to operate for speaking to the teacher that did when I was teaching. Grab her as she's trying to make sure every child has a parent to collect them.

The teacher is a man

I think that the vast majority of primary schools have School Business Managers now.
The job title better describes their responsibilities; similar to Caretakers being Site Managers.
‘School Secretary’ didn’t adequately reflect the role.
In my experience, the Business Manager is second only to the Head in both responsibilities and pay.

At my GCs school the same process seems to operate for speaking to the teacher that did when I was teaching. Grab her as she's trying to make sure every child has a parent to collect them.

I've been in many primary schools never met a bursar, or a school manager. I have met school secretaries who did the whole lot for next to nothing. I wonder if it's an Academies thing? Posh titles like public schools?
I do know what bursars are in universities and private schools. But as I said not in state primaries. And I've been in all sizes. From 3 form intakes to part time teaching heads.

Bursar - School Business Manager.
They are sometimes front of house. ‘My’ primary school also had two full time Receptionists /Administrators who were in the same office.
In my experience it’s very easy for parents to get to see staff or speak to staff.
It’s part and parcel of the job.
It sounds like Aveline’s grandson’s school is quite different.

We used to ‘set’ for English and Maths, LA and HA groups in Y5 and Y6 (2 classes in both year groups)
It was actually me (a lowly HLTA) who taught the HA children English.

You don’t know what a bursar is? That’s OK. Google will tell you.
Our school has a bursar and an office manager. Smaller schools may only have one person who does the lot, but part time? Even the smallest schools where I’ve delivered INSET, (fewer children in the school than in one of our classes), has a full time secretary. Where you live may be different.
Ours contacts the head or deputy or class teacher (even if he/she is an ECT) and sets up an appointment. If it’s urgent and the head is available a concerned parent is seen straight away. Again it could be different in schools where you live.
If that’s not possible in some schools, then I agree about a letter requesting a meeting, but it’s a strange school where you can’t ask to see a teacher after school.