Neopronouns

I don’t know the beliefs of people on MN, other than some are concerned for their children and I don’t see the relevance of their beliefs to how the issue is managed.

If teachers are setting questions in language that is too confusing (which mangled pronouns can be) then they should be asked to stop, IMO. Putting a personal political agenda ahead of the educational progress of their pupils is surely unprofessional?

"These threads"

This is not a trans thread, if it becomes one, I will go chat somewhere else

You can call it a flounce if you like...

I call it healthy boundaries, and self respect of my time and energy

No idea

My autistic daughter has no such issues

What are the beliefs of those discussing it on mumsnet? Could be a factor

Not agreeing is not personal, true. I’ve been saying that on these threads for years when people flounce. The rest of the personal stuff is there for all to see though.

Anyway. There is a thread on MN about children/young people with neurodivergence struggling with the illogicality of plural pronouns at school/college, particularly in exams when used in case studies and the like. People with autism or dyslexia can find it impossible to follow who’s who when things are couched in gender-neutral terms and there are no clues to whether ‘they’ refers to an individual person, whether male or female, or a group of people.

How does an ‘inclusive’ curriculum consider the needs of neurodiverse candidates whilst also couching questions in a way that pretends that sex doesn’t matter?

It's not a personal comment, it's an observation

I'm not invested. Ie: I neither like nor dislike, respect nor disrespect... I just don't agree. Not agreeing is not personal

But what I see is that, that works fine until it matters. Having some types of opinion works fine until its someone you care about who wants to be their authentic self.

I read estrangement forums and I see it all the time

It's awfully sad when it does happen, that opinions on people we don't know and haven't met suddenly turns out to be a person who we do care about.

Opinions over family members feelings well, I see it often and I always have to ask myself, is opinion worth it?

No, no it's not.

VioletSky

Or in other words

You be your authentic self

Others do not have to like or respect your authentic self nor agree with you

But I am not invested either way

You are invested enough to be rude and make personal comments though 😂. Remember that next time you regale us all with how you never do that and are the victim of nasty remarks from others?

‘Be Kind’ is always conditional when it comes to those who use it to virtue signal, but it comes out in the wash.

Or in other words

You be your authentic self

Others do not have to like or respect your authentic self nor agree with you

But I am not invested either way

I know you are being yourself

Doesn't appeal to me though

There are two genders. Male and Female. Anyone using anything else or wanting to change the gender they are is deluded and so is anyone pretending they are deluded too to make the deluded one feel better. Time to say 'No'.

No, I meant ‘plural’. ‘They’ is a plural pronoun.

Why do you persist in telling people to be themselves? What makes you think we aren’t doing just that?

You mean singular?

I don't have any issues being polite and respectful to people I don't know or have shown me the same

I certainly don't go around having opinions about people I've never even met as if I'm an authority in some way

Thou do thou

VioletSky

I think anyone wanting equality of the sexes should be open to and embrace pronouns that aren't gender specific.

Especially those who already use them themselves without noticing and never notice others doing so repeatedly even though they claim otherwise

That is completely different. Using a plural pronoun when you don't know the sex of the person it refers to is normal usage. Of course I know I do it - all English speakers do.

Asking people to use different pronouns, whether plural or 'neo', when the person doing the asking isn't going to be there to hear it seems to me self-obsessed, but obviously YMMV

Sure

You do you

I'm open to the use of 'they', or anything else, as a universal pronoun for everyone.

I am not open to using wrong-sex pronouns or personalised pronouns for anyone .

Btw, people forget that 'you' used to be plural or polite, with 'thou' being singular.
Everyone got used to saying 'you' to individuals while 'thou' was ditched.
I don't expect that happened all at once, tho.

Whoever they are

I think anyone wanting equality of the sexes should be open to and embrace pronouns that aren't gender specific.

Especially those who already use them themselves without noticing and never notice others doing so repeatedly even though they claim otherwise

VioletSky

There should not be focus on trans people. Trans people quite often prefer a masculine or feminine pronoun

So I don't know why they are being mentioned on a thread that is not about them

I can understand transpeople wanting to be accepted as the sex they wish they belonged to, but who else (ie other than transpeople) would expect others to use pronouns other than sex-based ones to describe them when they aren't there?

I can't think of anyone.

25Avalon

I have always used they or them if I don’t know a person’s sex regardless of their preferred sex if I may phrase it thus. This also applies when I am talking about someone’s pets. So I would say ‘what treat do they like?” in respect of a single dog whose sex I don’t know. Alternatively I would say it but I don’t think that would go down too well with any person.

I was once having a coffee at a new neighbours house when her cat walked in.I said what a pretty cat, is she having kittens soon? The cat had a lot of fat hanging down btw.My neighbour laughed and said no he isn’t!
After that I always said ‘it’ 😸

There should not be focus on trans people. Trans people quite often prefer a masculine or feminine pronoun

So I don't know why they are being mentioned on a thread that is not about them

Sorry Lucca

There is no explanation for your disagreement so I'm not changing my mind on this one

Especially as a lot of my family are fluent in French

To think that many were concerned that “the elderly” wouldn’t grasp decimalisation, that seems a doddle compared to this. I think those who are planning to avoid “His/Hers” etc wherever possible, have my vote. I have no wish to offend anyone, for me it will be a case of trying to remember. If I get it wrong, for once I hope that it will be put down to being “elderly” rather than offensive.

FarNorth

I should say -
For a 'trans' child who is not a close relative of mine, I would try to avoid using pronouns for them at all.

That’s pretty much what I do, but it’s all but impossible to keep it up when referring to someone who is rarely there, such as a friend’s child. Once it is established that they are the subject of the conversation (eg Has Sam heard about the new job yet?) it is awkward to avoid saying ’him’ or ‘her’ thereafter. ‘When will Sam hear?’, or Give Sam my congratulations’, Will Sam now move to Xtown to be near Sam’s office?’ is as much buying in as using ’they’. It is setting Sam apart from Sarah and Simon, who would naturally be referred to by their sex-based pronouns.

I tend to revert to the relevant sex-based one, as it’s easier all round, and when Sam is in the room there is no need for pronouns at all.

I have always used they or them if I don’t know a person’s sex regardless of their preferred sex if I may phrase it thus. This also applies when I am talking about someone’s pets. So I would say ‘what treat do they like?” in respect of a single dog whose sex I don’t know. Alternatively I would say it but I don’t think that would go down too well with any person.

I don't care what pronoun they use about me. I'd not feel abused if they called me he or she. I'd object to 'it' because the fact is I am and have been alive.

I should say -
For a 'trans' child who is not a close relative of mine, I would try to avoid using pronouns for them at all.