Why oh why is there so much hate

missdeke

So many parents these days have to leave child rearing to others as they have to go out to work. Children often receive conflicting views from their carers, whoever they are, and with all the pressure they get from social media and tv reality programs to conform to so called social norms it's no wonder that they grow up with only thoughts for their own survival. I feel so sorry for children today, so few have normal family lives learning respect and civilised behaviour.

Anecdotal I know, but my children were both at nursery full-time from the age of six months. They learnt plenty about respecting and co-operating with others - far more than if they'd have been stuck at home with me. When they started primary school, in both cases teachers commented to me how mature my children were in relationships with others.

The groups outside the hotel in Liverpool were mainly adults though weren't they? Not teenagers.

Who should decide what is "hate speech" is a very difficult question.
Religious preachers could easily be accused of hate speech.
The very mildest questioning of some ideologies is labelled hate speech.

growstuff

missdeke

So many parents these days have to leave child rearing to others as they have to go out to work. Children often receive conflicting views from their carers, whoever they are, and with all the pressure they get from social media and tv reality programs to conform to so called social norms it's no wonder that they grow up with only thoughts for their own survival. I feel so sorry for children today, so few have normal family lives learning respect and civilised behaviour.

Anecdotal I know, but my children were both at nursery full-time from the age of six months. They learnt plenty about respecting and co-operating with others - far more than if they'd have been stuck at home with me. When they started primary school, in both cases teachers commented to me how mature my children were in relationships with others.

Totally agree our children had a mixture of a Nanny until old enough for Nursery (aged 3 for the boys and 2 for DD)

They were/are polite, socially adjusted and took to school like proverbial ducks to water.

There are and always have been bad eggs not all come from problem families.

Not all sibling groups are either all bad or good maybe some individuals are just wired differently?

Ilovecheese

The groups outside the hotel in Liverpool were mainly adults though weren't they? Not teenagers.

Nit picking I know, but Knowsley isn't in Liverpool. It's now in the Liverpool City Region, but most Liverpudlians would call people from Knowsley "wools" aka "woolly backers" ie not Scousers.

PS. Random facts - in the 2021 census, more people from Knowsley stated they were Christian than any other borough in the country. Knowsley has the second highest level of deprivation of any borough and life expectancy is 11 years lower than life expectancy in the healthiest borough. Unemployment is high.

PPS. This might surprise Experiencednotold (who thinks I live on Cloud 9), but I lived for two years just outside what is now Knowsley, so know the area quite well.

There is less prejudice around than when I was a young person. I witnessed racial prejudice and unpleasant talk about gays; people were ostracised for private matters that somewhow became public knowledge, and were nobody's business but that of those involved. Illegitimacy, divorce, or extra marital affairs were a source of humiliation and notoriety. Society views these matters differently now. However, I'm absolutely certain that violence has frighteningly escalated. This country now has a knife culture which has been both imported, and encouraged by violence in films and so called 'games'.

Sorry growstuff nit pick away. It really irritates me when I see Salford confused with Manchester.

I don't know if it would help, but a few bobbies on the beat once more might help! The only uniforms around are the traffic wardens!
We had a perfectly good police station in town which could be accessed by the public. Shut down and sold off, now planning a new station - outside of town - no access by the public in time of need!!
And more Uni students shot in America!

Religion is one of the 5 where demonstrating hostility towards a person based on their religion is a hate crime

1. We can all discuss the crimes of individuals or even groups of individuals without the need to assign that to all who share that minority group.

2. We can act to protect the rights of one group while not being hostile towards another group.

People who choose not to do both those things are demonstrating prejudice

Yet very little seems to be done about it because people aren't taught what a hate crime is and people aren't held accountable for it in great enough numbers

I am not sure that the people who think they qualified to decide what is hate speech are the people who should do the deciding.

VioletSky

Religion is one of the 5 where demonstrating hostility towards a person based on their religion is a hate crime

1. We can all discuss the crimes of individuals or even groups of individuals without the need to assign that to all who share that minority group.

2. We can act to protect the rights of one group while not being hostile towards another group.

People who choose not to do both those things are demonstrating prejudice

Yet very little seems to be done about it because people aren't taught what a hate crime is and people aren't held accountable for it in great enough numbers

Disagree with you on people aren’t taught what a hate crime is

It’s certainly taught in primary and senior schools in my area.

The MSM frequently has hate crime articles.

Ilovecheese

I am not sure that the people who think they qualified to decide what is hate speech are the people who should do the deciding.

Surely it comes down to respect being taught in homes and schools?

I would hate to live in a society whereby everything said was monitored.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibility, responsibility to respect others.

Callistemon21

Casdon

Time to stop the gossip on this case I think. We don’t know what happened yet.

I agree.
This thread is quite shocking.

A child has been murdered, friends and family traumatised.
Killed by other children so two other families must be distraught too.

😥

This ^^

I have met plenty of intelligent seeming people who don't seem to understand what a hate crime is and how their own words may lead to violence GG

They are exactly the people you dont want to decide Ilovecheese. As a woman (not a group protected by hate crime legislation) I am much more frightened of people trying to control speech than by sexist idiots making sexist comments.

We don't have "freedom of speech* in the UK GG

That's the US

We have Individual Liberty, which goes along with Tolerance and Respect.

So no, we don't have "freedom of speech" which is why we have laws about hate speech.

Now that is taught in primary school, yes

We live in unsettling times with rising tensions in the world. These are the perfect breeding ground for anger and hatred. Social media exacerbates the situation with anger spreading virally. Economically times are hard and high levels of poverty are contributing to feelings of helplessness and frustration which in turn lead to anger. I suspect that mental illness also plays a part. Statistics in the UK suggest that we have high levels of mental health issues which go unheeded and untreated. Right now I feel that the UK is just drifting aimlessly with an uncaring government who are good at promoting themselves and at keeping their own pockets well lined with tax and financial schemes that they ensure remain legal. But what about just a bit of compassion?

Of course people are taught what a hate crime is.

But whether someone is killed because they are in a protected group or whether it is a so-called 'motiveless killing' doesn't matter - any murder is a tragedy for all concerned, and for society too - As John Donne said, '. . .any man's death diminishes me/because I am involved in mankind'.

I don't know what can be done about it. Capital punishment doesn't work. There is education in place that teaches children that killing is wrong. There is already a penalty for carrying knives. I suspect that if drugs were legalised gangs would spring up around a different 'cause' (for want of a better word). Also, there are people killed for just looking at someone the wrong way in the pub, and for choosing the wrong underpass to cross the road at night - they could have done nothing to stop it. It seems to be something that is part of the human condition, but luckily there are more people who abhor violence than those who commit it. On the whole, the UK is a safe place to live, and murder by strangers is mercifully rare.

Well they obviously were either not taught well enough to understand, do not apply the laws about hate speech to themselves or are otherwise too motivated by agenda to moderate their own expression then doodledog

Is that a dig, VS? Was there really any need?

Doodledog

Is that a dig, VS? Was there really any need?

What are you talking about?

I guess there used to more structure to family life especially after WW2 .
Now for varying reasons there seems to be more isolation within communities.

VioletSky

Doodledog

Is that a dig, VS? Was there really any need?

What are you talking about?

I would have thought it was obvious that I am talking about your post above, in which you mentioned me by name in a post about an agenda and people not applying laws to themselves, both of which are things you have accused me (very wrongly) of being guilty of doing.

As I have repeatedly said on this thread, both the death of Brianna and the incident at the asylum hostel were terrible things, and I have also said repeatedly on other threads that I have nothing at all against transpeople, but it is clear that you don't believe me, and it appears that you are dragging your prejudice against me onto this thread, and there is no need for it.

I'm guessing that Fleurpepper is not going to substantiate her claim that the anti trans brigade find nothing better to do than to insist her death certificate says 'male despite a number of requests for links. If there is no evidence of that, it is a libel against the so-called 'gender critical', yet you have tried to police my posts for questioning the rather tasteless hijack of a murder to smear those with different views about the law as it relates to self-id. That's what I am talking about.

Really interesting article on the BBC about why young men relate to Andrew Tate, fairly scary but important to think about why that is.

doodledog

You said "Of course people are taught what a hate crime is"

I replied to that, so I tagged you in it