Why oh why is there so much hate

I would like to see evidence, sorry

I'm just so shocked by people defending prejudiced people rather than their victims

It's like a car crash, I can't stop looking

I understand what you're saying Terribull. I was born and brought up on Merseyside. As I'm sure you know, Merseyside has a high percentage of Catholics. I hardly knew any, even though some of them were my neighbours. Of course, they went to different schools and I wasn't allowed to play with them. I was baptised as a Protestant, even though my parents didn't have any belief (neither do I), but my mother was one of the most bigoted people I have ever known and she didn't "approve" of her children having Catholic friends. I briefly had a Catholic boyfriend and she freaked. Some of the things she said about Catholics made me cringe and it affected my relationship with my mother until she died. As I grew up, I really didn't understand any of it and when I left home to go to university, I realised that none of it mattered.

Nobody is 'defending racists, sexists etc'. Suggesting otherwise is the ultimate in twisting words.

When the claim was made that this was a hate crime and that 'the anti trans brigade find nothing better to do than to insist her death certificate says 'male', (a) the police were saying that it was not a hate crime, (b) there has been no link to evidence that 'the anti-trans brigade' (whoever they are) were insisting on anything, and (c) all that happened on this thread was that people asked for some sort of source so that we could read for ourselves.

There appears to be some confusion between a hate crime (which is a crime committed against a member of a protected group, as specified by law) and a crime committed out of hatred (which is at best subjective).

Absolutely nobody has suggested that there is any excuse for what happened, or that it doesn't matter, and nobody has put up a shred of defence for the people who murdered Brianna. There has been no defence of racists or sexists either (????).

People have pointed out that language such as 'knuckle draggers', 'backward' and 'cave dwellers' is far from inclusive, and in fact is likely to cause divisions that could lead to hate, which seems to me fair enough. There is, however, no law against people using such language, and however much people on this thread (me included) may dislike discriminatory terminology, it is good that the option to use it remains, as when language is censored so are people's opinions, which is the thin end of a troubling wedge.

What any of that has to do with racists is beyond me.

That's interesting Growstuff, if that's the right word. Dh is catholic, and I am an atheist, he sometimes feels that prejudice against Catholics is sometimes almost acceptable.

Galaxy

That's interesting Growstuff, if that's the right word. Dh is catholic, and I am an atheist, he sometimes feels that prejudice against Catholics is sometimes almost acceptable.

I'm not a Catholic, so obviously have never experienced that kind of prejudice, but I was on the other side and it was very real.

My husband is nominally Catholic, and I am atheist with a Protestant background. Some of our respective ancestors will be spinning in their graves, but it has made 0% difference to us in any area of our lives.

Well, knuckle dragging cave dweller is actually a politer term than what I actially think about people who discriminate...

But I've already said that perhaps I shouldn't say that so there isn't much point in keep hounding me about it

I literally do have 0 respect for people who discriminate and use hate speech that leads to violence.

I don't see them as a group as they exist in every demographic

They make life horrifically unbearable for people who have no choice in their sex, gender or race etc and aren't hurting them

Well said Doodledog.

If my values are individual liberty, tolerance and respect, that applies to those who uphold those values

Those who don't are not moving within the law and are not conforming to a fair dricratic society

They believe themselves above such values, I see them as below those values

Doodledog There has been defence of the people who instigated the attack in Knowsley. It was motivated by a video which went viral on 6th February. The police dealt with it and picked up a man who wasn't even living in the hotel. However, the video was weaponised by racists (what else can they be called?) who used it as an excuse to attack a group of people who just happened to have dark skin and be foreign. Somebody on GN claimed that it was inevitable when men who haven't been "socialised" are allowed to wander around with nothing better to do.

FWIW I don't think VioletSky's opinion is "warped", although none of us yet knows what motivated the murder of Brianna Ghey. It's being reported that the police are now investigating it as a hate crime.

Doodledog

My husband is nominally Catholic, and I am atheist with a Protestant background. Some of our respective ancestors will be spinning in their graves, but it has made 0% difference to us in any area of our lives.

Well, lucky you! I can assure you that my experience was real. Maybe you weren't brought up on Merseyside or Glasgow.

Or Northern Ireland.

Ah, fair enough. I didn't realise that that was what was being referred to. I'm still not sure how they are linked to VS's post, but if I've misunderstood I apologise.

It does feel as though people (on this thread) are protesting at the horrible crimes yet being cast as defenders of the perpetrators simply for questioning the attack on 'the anti-trans brigade' which has still not been substantiated, and a lot of things have got mixed up because of that.

growstuff

FWIW I don't think VioletSky's opinion is "warped", although none of us yet knows what motivated the murder of Brianna Ghey. It's being reported that the police are now investigating it as a hate crime.

I haven't given any opinion on that anyway

I'm waiting for the investigation

People are obviously dragging me into seperate conversations that I am not actually involved in

growstuff

Doodledog

My husband is nominally Catholic, and I am atheist with a Protestant background. Some of our respective ancestors will be spinning in their graves, but it has made 0% difference to us in any area of our lives.

Well, lucky you! I can assure you that my experience was real. Maybe you weren't brought up on Merseyside or Glasgow.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Jeez!

I was simply agreeing that I can understand prejudice based on religion, as I was brought up with it at remove, and remember the older generations of my family saying some very bigoted things. I'm sorry I spoke.

I find that everyone seems to be very intolerant these days, irrespective their age, gender or what they are doing. I know Covid, or the Covid Vaccine have created a lot of different illnesses which may be one reason. Of course the constant bombarding of horrid news - war, earthquake, rising prices, government fallouts, Royal Family fallouts doesn't make it any easier.

Are you OK doodledog?

Yes thank you.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

missdeke

So many parents these days have to leave child rearing to others as they have to go out to work. Children often receive conflicting views from their carers, whoever they are, and with all the pressure they get from social media and tv reality programs to conform to so called social norms it's no wonder that they grow up with only thoughts for their own survival. I feel so sorry for children today, so few have normal family lives learning respect and civilised behaviour.

Anecdotal I know, but my children were both at nursery full-time from the age of six months. They learnt plenty about respecting and co-operating with others - far more than if they'd have been stuck at home with me. When they started primary school, in both cases teachers commented to me how mature my children were in relationships with others.

Totally agree our children had a mixture of a Nanny until old enough for Nursery (aged 3 for the boys and 2 for DD)

They were/are polite, socially adjusted and took to school like proverbial ducks to water.

There are and always have been bad eggs not all come from problem families.

Not all sibling groups are either all bad or good maybe some individuals are just wired differently?

Obviously not all children turn out damaged, your children were lucky to have stable relationships within and outside of your home, unfortunately not all children do. Parents can often be too tired, too pressured by money worries and guilt for not being able to provide the sort of homelife that they would ideally like to give, that it becomes a rolling ball of conflict that affects the children. I too was lucky with the external care I had for my children but not eveyone is,

I know it's considered claptrap BUT! The prevalence of extremely violent computer games has a huge amount to answer for!
DH was police for (30years); most of his working life and said way back in early 80 s that the influence of games even then , Kung Fu etc was having an effect on the types of incidents being attended.kicking heads strangling etc as a first stop for a fight, daft punching and a bit of a tussle had all but gone as the norm .then knives became easier to buy and even my2DS said they'd considered having a knife " for protection" !!!! I was gobsmacked and got that right out of their reasoning asap!! That's how they reason though.protection!? DH explained that unless they were a well trained knife smith they'd be 99% likely to GET stabbed or even Stab themselves by accident!!! Nobody seems to think youngsters need teaching/ monitoring/ stopping harming themselves let alone others any more. Any and all forms of any type of discipline is all coming under the heading "abuse" nowadays and it really needs addressing.

As for police? GONE. Is the deep vetting/ weeks at dedicated police training schools where personalities eventually surface and are routed out,/ mentored 2years probation with monthly progress hearings again many would fall by wayside, those who survived the course(!) Were the best and even then consistent career monitoring was a way of keeping track of officers' progress or not, I'm not saying they were all choir members(!) But the current rabble wouldn't get past the initial training module!!!.but hey! We've saved lots of money to blow on cross rail /hs2/ any other money pits the conservatives dream up!! What did Theresa May say? "No correlation between officer numbers and crime" using her logic we should get rid of all police then by logic We'd have no crime ya?!!??.....and they keep voting them in..... yaaaaaawn

Video games have nothing to do with hate

Most video game platforms and developers have very strong policies against hate speech and ban users for it.

A lot of game platforms also celebrate LGBTQ and Black history month.

I am on the playground every day amd watch children act out their favourite games and it's not violent. For something like Fortnite where you are thrown into an arena with 100 other players till 1 wins, the mechanics are that no-one actually dies, they are projections.

And what do children bring to school? The little dances their characters do.

What makes children grow up violent is growing up in violent households and areas or other kinds if abuse or neglect that makes them hurt and defensive.

When I deal with violence at school 9 times out of 10 it is children who both think the other is the bully and have both been told at home, "if x annoys you punch him" or "if x punches you punch him back harder".

When the rules are different at school than they are at home, that's when we come up with issues.