15 minute cities coming to your area soon

Galaxy

Actually LadyHonoria it certainly isnt about me me me for me , when I hear talk of butchers and grocers and hardware stores it sounds like a very middle class concept of what people need. Oh and when people talk about bakers I take it people mean Gregg's or a similar chain.

Gregg's used to sell nice bread ☹

Doodledog The traffic flow schemes are separate but have been linked by the conspiracy theorists. I'm not talking about GN, but in the media generally. In a 15 minute city NOBODY would be prevented from travelling outside their zone.

You and I obviously already live in 15 minute city/towns. Millions of people do. The issue is that when new housing developments are planned, there are often no facilities and people are forced to use a car for everyday living. There are also issues when local facilities such as libraries and swimming pools/leisure centres are closed down.

Time and again, reports (and individuals) have mentioned that communities/neighbourhoods no longer exist, which has been blamed for all sorts of society's problems. I think there's some truth in that. I would certainly hate to live on a housing estate, where there is nothing but houses (however nice) and no facilities. There have also been reports that some people don't live on an accessible route to a supermarket, even in towns sometimes.

The above aren't about restricting where people are allowed to go. It's about trying to ensure that people live in a neighbourhood with good facilities, for their own and society's wellbeing, which also happens to be better for the environment.

The whole idea has been hijacked by some fruitloops, such as the MP who called them an "international socialist concept". The conspiracy theorists have gone further and claim it's part of the "Great Reset", encouraged by the WEF and Davros representatives. Who would have thought that the people who toddle down to do their daily shop and meet their friends for a cuppa are part of some great global conspiracy?

winterwhite

It's chicken-and-egg because car-use-limitation schemes can't be introduced without sufficient reliable public transport in place, and the bus companies won't invest in advance, they only respond to visible demand.

The alternative days for car use by numberplate worked well in Paris (I thought) and they also trialled a scheme for bikes only hours where private cars stopped. Those could be tried out here without major expansions to P&R car parks or brand new P&Rs, as planned for Oxford..

Also, communal out-of-town warehouses for all the major delivery companies (Amazon, dpd , Hermes etc), and onward deliveries to inner localities 2-3 times a week taking all parcels. When you think, the current system is absurd.

I agree it's "chicken and egg", which is why the "market" can't be relied on to deliver and there has to be central planning intervention.

LadyHonoriaDedlock Do you want to borrow my brick wall to bang your head against?

Callistemon I agree that it's an uphill struggle, but I still think it's a journey worth starting. Acorns and oak trees.

I wonder how many people on GN have ever been involved in their Neighbourhood's Local Plan. It's a recurrent issue in mine and a reason why planning permission for new housing has sometimes been refused. Unfortunately, local authorities currently have neither the power nor resources to make it work properly.

growstuff

LadyHonoriaDedlock Do you want to borrow my brick wall to bang your head against?

It's tempting, growstuff. On the other hand, sometimes it's better to walk away and do something useful.

Crikey does that make you think you are the good guys.

* The traffic flow schemes are separate but have been linked by the conspiracy theorists. I'm not talking about GN, but in the media generally. In a 15 minute city NOBODY would be prevented from travelling outside their zone.*

Well if that is the case, why are you patronising those who have responded to the OP, which very clearly states that people (or those who can’t pay the fines, at least) will be prevented from leaving their zones more than twice a week?

I agree that housing estates must be very bleak places to live. There are lots of them surrounding my town, but no infrastructure to support them. People resent the building, as schools are bursting, doctors’ surgeries are not offering anything like a full service, whilst also continuing to take new patients, and those who drive are always complaining about lack of parking spaces. To be fair, some of the estates are too far out of the town centre to expect people to walk with shopping or children, so the residents need to take cars into town to the shops, increasing pollution and traffic jams.

To avoid this, all that is needed is for regulations on builders to provide schools, a health centre, shops and so on on a pro rata basis depending on the number of houses they build before they are granted permission. If public transport improved, which I and others have been pushing for for years, more people would leave their cars at home, and there would be no need to have zones or any restrictions on anyone else, as far as I can see, and no need for anyone to bang their heads against a wall.

Big brother watching us! No. It won’t happen. Too many people will flaunt such a rule. Me for one! I’m disabled with heart and mobility problems and drive everywhere I go

growstuff

Callistemon I agree that it's an uphill struggle, but I still think it's a journey worth starting. Acorns and oak trees.

I wonder how many people on GN have ever been involved in their Neighbourhood's Local Plan. It's a recurrent issue in mine and a reason why planning permission for new housing has sometimes been refused. Unfortunately, local authorities currently have neither the power nor resources to make it work properly.

Oh yes, but it goes ahead anyway, despite meetings with hundreds of people attending, local opposition and repeated demands for better transport and local infrastructure to be improved.

20 minute neighbourhoods is an ambition of the Scottish Government,announced a few years ago. It is intended to be people - centred, promote wellbeing,and encourage planners to take a holistic approach to providing essential services in every area. It would also help to reduce travel/protect the environment. I haven't seen anything about penalties for traveling however. I agree that approaches which restrict movement and apply fines could be hard to manage and unfairly disadvantage some people, unless it were very carefully implemented.

Yes exactly!

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.

6 pages of comments on this topic already - lots of concern. I came across this interesting discussion on this subject recently on this link.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001j4j5
Good discussion on both sides.
x

BlueBelle

Big brother is watching you sounds very restrictive !

No I ve never heard of it and don’t like the sound if it what if you need to travel by car to a hospital or similar weekly what if you use your allowance up and a loved one becomes ill and you’re fined for visiting or something I can just see so many downfalls
I remember years ago because of pollution in their cities Greece had a scheme where people could only use their cars on alternative days I ve never heard how that went ?

My husband used to work in Athens and said that people simply had two cars, each with permits for different days.

Callistemon21

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.

I lived in Bath for 15 years until a couple of years ago and our bus service initially ran twice an hour, then once an hour if your were lucky, with pretty restrictive hours. I would guess that it is even worse now.
There are two universities there and the bus routes to those ran 24 hours a day, very regularly, and often empty. Ditto the tour buses.
When we left the council were on the verge introducing measures to restrict driving in the centre which meant that people could not even drive to a supermarket without paying. Tradesmen had to pay to drive through the centre to get to their work. They also vastly reduced the number of parking spaces in town.
The local authority owned many of the city centre shops and rents were so high that many banks and shops chose to close, and most independent shops were severely challenged.
We decided that the time had come to leave.

Yes I did see something about this.
I expect the looney council in Bristol will think it’s a brilliant idea. We already have congestion charges and some cars can’t go into town without paying.
Lots of bus routes being axed
Good luck with getting shops to open in some areas.
Doomed to fail here

On the surface this sounds like a great idea, citing the old chestnuts of ‘community’ and ‘sustainability’ which are buzz wotds at the moment. I personally see it as a further example of how the ‘authorities’ ie the ruling elite, whether at a local or governmental level are attempting to control our thoughts, our actions and our movements. Can we not rather consider building decent and affordable housing for the population as a whole and not just for an increasingly compliant middle class? Together with promoting decent, forward facing jobs to which all could aspire through improved education? Who really knows what forms ‘public transport’/community etc would take? How would this be policed and enforced to ensure conformity? I find it extremely worrying and yet another example of a nannying state trying to control our way of life and freedoms. Would not EDUCATION be a better way? And making travel by more sustainable models easier and cheaper? Increasing support for communities to find their own way? As yet we we are not an authoritarian state, despite this model of governance having something of a resurgence worldwide. I would hate to see an uncomplaining populace misled into surrendering the rights, freedoms and responsibilities our forbears fought so hard for.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon I agree that it's an uphill struggle, but I still think it's a journey worth starting. Acorns and oak trees.

I wonder how many people on GN have ever been involved in their Neighbourhood's Local Plan. It's a recurrent issue in mine and a reason why planning permission for new housing has sometimes been refused. Unfortunately, local authorities currently have neither the power nor resources to make it work properly.

Oh yes, but it goes ahead anyway, despite meetings with hundreds of people attending, local opposition and repeated demands for better transport and local infrastructure to be improved.

Not always! I've been to public planning meetings, which have been announced in the press and there's hardly anybody there. Some councillors are very much on the ball and they are very much aware of infrastructure and fight the corner.

The fact is that most people really couldn't care less - and then make lots of noise when something affects them personally.

They get hold of a mangled version of facts and develop a kind of hysteria. It's very easy for conspiracy theorists to exploit ignorance.

Amalegra Just who are these "ruling elite"? Lizards? Davros party goers?

For goodness sake, look at the facts rather than listening to conspiracy theorists.

And make sure you use your votes wisely!

Loopey

Yes I did see something about this.
I expect the looney council in Bristol will think it’s a brilliant idea. We already have congestion charges and some cars can’t go into town without paying.
Lots of bus routes being axed
Good luck with getting shops to open in some areas.
Doomed to fail here

Traffic flow systems aren't the same as the 15 minute city concept.

Suppose that depends on your community, there is a lot of involvement in the neighbour hood plan here, I am afraid there is a lot of opposition to any new housing which I find a little depressing.

For me, I would be concerned also if my grandchildren's school and out of school activities was in another zone(s) and I was restricted in picking them up in the car to ferry them here there and everywhere several times per week.
I think this attitude rather sums up the issue. The sooner we rethink our entitlement to go here, there and everywhere, the longer we can last until mass extinction kicks in.

Callistemon21

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.

Bus services round here are subsidised by Essex County Council. My district council is always fighting for them because we live in a rural area right on the edge of the county and I'm afraid those in other areas don't care about us. As ever, people only care about themselves and not the societies to which they belong. Maybe should be aware of such issues when they vote, rather than being obsessed with immigration and transgender issues.

cc buses in Bath are the original Badgetline which became half of First Bus, so what you say doesn't surprise me. First Glasgow has also introduced cancellations and service cuts. It's short of drivers because it won't offer pay rates that attract potential drivers.

The problem with town centre shops (and even more so the big private shopping centres) is not so much local authority owners charging high rents as the big pension funds doing the same. They, unsurprisingly, want ultra-safe investments for their clients and set their rents so high that only the desirable blue-chip stores could afford them. That's why, from the 1980s onwards, town centres and big shopping malls all had the same corporate brands and few independents (many more brands than corporations owning them of course, giving a false sense of 'diversity'). This has blown up in the faces of the pension funds of course, with a change in the economic climate and the way we shop bringing down such blue-chips as the Arcadia Group (Topshop, Dotty P's) and Debenhams.

I'd go back to local government ownership in a flash if local government hadn't been squeezed dry. A system of sensible rents could be the way forward to town centres as we knew them, as social destinations with independent shops, markets, cafés and maybe people actually living there, by encouraging small-scale enterprise rather than transnational corporatism.