15 minute cities coming to your area soon

Galaxy

Suppose that depends on your community, there is a lot of involvement in the neighbour hood plan here, I am afraid there is a lot of opposition to any new housing which I find a little depressing.

What do you mean by "a lot"? Yes, there's opposition to new housing here too - particularly social housing. People only care about their own house prices.

On the whole, people really couldn't care less about their community. They moan like hell if (for example) new parking restrictions are put in place which means they might have to walk another few metres to get their children to school, but couldn't give a stuff about the nuisance their cars cause to other road users.

Well said LadyHonoriaDedlock. In my town, the local authority doesn't own any of the freeholds on shops. They're owned by private companies, many of them international conglomerates based anywhere in the world. I doubt if they even know where their properties are - they're just footnotes on balance sheets.

PS. I wish people would discuss the idea of 15 minute cities rather than the issue of traffic flow systems, which isn't the same.

A lot means there were a large group of people who consistently were involved and even more attendance in the consultation events. I think the return on the postal consultation was very high, the stalwarts involved in the neighbour hood plan did use the local Facebook to tell us how to vote on the final acceptance or not, it made me smile.

Doodledog

* The traffic flow schemes are separate but have been linked by the conspiracy theorists. I'm not talking about GN, but in the media generally. In a 15 minute city NOBODY would be prevented from travelling outside their zone.*

Well if that is the case, why are you patronising those who have responded to the OP, which very clearly states that people (or those who can’t pay the fines, at least) will be prevented from leaving their zones more than twice a week?

I agree that housing estates must be very bleak places to live. There are lots of them surrounding my town, but no infrastructure to support them. People resent the building, as schools are bursting, doctors’ surgeries are not offering anything like a full service, whilst also continuing to take new patients, and those who drive are always complaining about lack of parking spaces. To be fair, some of the estates are too far out of the town centre to expect people to walk with shopping or children, so the residents need to take cars into town to the shops, increasing pollution and traffic jams.

To avoid this, all that is needed is for regulations on builders to provide schools, a health centre, shops and so on on a pro rata basis depending on the number of houses they build before they are granted permission. If public transport improved, which I and others have been pushing for for years, more people would leave their cars at home, and there would be no need to have zones or any restrictions on anyone else, as far as I can see, and no need for anyone to bang their heads against a wall.

I'm not patronising anybody. I'm fed up with people conflating two different issues and being distracted by irrelevancies.

So far none of the various schemes for restricting the use of private cars in cities to relieve traffic congestion in the 1960s and today in the interest of the environment has worked.

Nor will they in my opinion, unless various steps are taken by cities and towns:

providing suitable parking areas outsde cities and affordable public transport from there to the city centre.

free use (or only a moderate fare) on electric buses in the city centre.

exemption from these restrictions for those unable to walk well or otherwise handicapped, or provision of suitable transport for them free of charge within the city.

Yes, this will cost money, but some of the cost will be available from what is saved on repairing street surfaces, as traffic will be less.

There will also be a saving in illness caused by air pollution and the cost of curing or alleviating such conditions.

Galaxy

A lot means there were a large group of people who consistently were involved and even more attendance in the consultation events. I think the return on the postal consultation was very high, the stalwarts involved in the neighbour hood plan did use the local Facebook to tell us how to vote on the final acceptance or not, it made me smile.

But what's a large group? There's a very vocal group of people here, but they're actually a very small minority of people who are affected.

grantante What you're saying supports the idea of 15 minute cities. They're not about the traffic flow systems, but trying to ensure that most of the facilities people need for daily living are within a 15 minute walk or bike ride for most people. They would make traffic flow systems unnecessary.

Well in terms of an implementation group the numbers cant be that large or its unworkable but in terms of consultation there was a good attendance. I would say the majority of people in the village were aware of the plan which whatever I may think of the views of some driving the plan is an achievement.

Galaxy

And the descriptions on this thread (not necessarily reflecting the scheme itself) are from affluent villages from a different era, I live in a very middle class village, the local shops are a spar, a chain bakers, and a butchers that has diversified into a deli/take away food place, and everyone does the majority of their shopping at Tesco or asda.

I don't get the 'middle class' accusation, Galaxy. I live on the edge of what is either a very small town or a very large village in a definitely not middle class area of Co. Durham, (which is part of the deprived North East).

It has two well patronised butchers, a brilliant hardware shop, a greengrocers, three chemists, Lidl and Aldi plus 2 other food retailers, newsagents, post office, a bank, Greggs and another bakers, restaurants and cafes plus a few other miscellaneous shops. GP surgery and a vet practice. All thriving. Oh, and a decent weekly market.

10 minutes walk in the other direction from my home, small village with butcher, convenience store, garage (sells some groceries), chip shop, and hairdressers and an undertakers. All well used. Definitely not a middleclass area.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove. This is what working class people use, not a vision of a middle class utopia.

Just another hairbrained scheme from people who have too much time on their hands, and no knowledge of what it is like to live in a village. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’. Given that my County has few railways , no motorways and to get anywhere on public transport requires driving into the city centre to get anywhere else on public transport, and usually requires a trip into London before accessing transport to destination. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’.
It’s another means of social control.

I am in Co Durham too. But people dont do they, they do their majority of shopping in Tescos or Aldi, they may use those for picking up some items, but the concepts of people using butchers etc is something that for the majority if people isnt a reality. If you work ypu couldnt for example use the butcher in my village.

Yes petunia I have heard of this , it used to be known by the name of communism 🤣🤣🤣
Restricted movement, allocated slots for travel both in frequency and locations....... Daft idea by daft people.
I bet the authors of this crackpot scheme go where they want , when they want , such restrictions are for the plebs!!

Ok so I work , say in a "city" 40 miles away, as we used to? Arecwe allowed to drive to work , shifts , on call and without any rights to strike ?

Fair enough! So make sure there's planning for a decent supermarket which is accessible for most people! Encourage supermarkets to return to more central locations with rate reductions, etc!

I live in a small town and have Tesco, Aldi and Waitrose within a 15 minute walk. There are also a number of convenience stores. It's not about small butchers and greengrocers, although we happen to have those too.

The issue arises when large housing developments are planned, but there are no facilities, including supermarkets, and people are forced to own a car.

It's not rocket science to understand that having the needs for daily living within easy reach is good for people's, society's and the environment's wellbeing.

Gabrielle56

Ok so I work , say in a "city" 40 miles away, as we used to? Arecwe allowed to drive to work , shifts , on call and without any rights to strike ?

Yes! Why on earth wouldn't you be allowed to do that?

Don't tell me you've swallowed the conspiracy theory propaganda.

Coco51

Just another hairbrained scheme from people who have too much time on their hands, and no knowledge of what it is like to live in a village. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’. Given that my County has few railways , no motorways and to get anywhere on public transport requires driving into the city centre to get anywhere else on public transport, and usually requires a trip into London before accessing transport to destination. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’.
It’s another means of social control.

And the conspiracy theorists would want people to believe what you do!

The idea of 15 minute cities isn't a harebrained scheme. Many people already live in them and it's what people would like when they move to a new development. They want to live in communities, rather than individual boxes with closed doors.

Well said Maizie. I live in a town, where the majority of people are quite wealthy, but it's those who don't have access to a car (and there are quite a lot) who make most use of the local facilities.

Galaxy

Well in terms of an implementation group the numbers cant be that large or its unworkable but in terms of consultation there was a good attendance. I would say the majority of people in the village were aware of the plan which whatever I may think of the views of some driving the plan is an achievement.

So what are they objecting to? I hope it's not social housing which might affect their house prices.

I've been involved with our local planning committee for almost ten years. Despite a vocal few, most people haven't a clue how systems work or what's going on. They just expect the council to produce what they want as individuals and come out with a load of guff about the good of the town, about which they actually couldn't care less.

We spend a lot of time sending out notices, getting articles in the local press and doing surveys and questionnaires. We're lucky if 20 people turn up for meetings or more than 10% of questionnaires are completed. It doesn't stop people having a huge moan when there's development they don't like.

growstuff

grantante What you're saying supports the idea of 15 minute cities. They're not about the traffic flow systems, but trying to ensure that most of the facilities people need for daily living are within a 15 minute walk or bike ride for most people. They would make traffic flow systems unnecessary.

And severely restrict free movement for everyone! Non runner on the idea of imposing restrictions, try persuasion? Maybe coughing up for electric vehicles for the working classes? That's anyone who works for a wage. Or encouraging industries to pry themselves away from concentrated cesspits of cities and overcrowded areas, sharing wealth and jobs more fairly? So many other ways to deal with modern issues, maybe old fashioned minds incapable of dealing with modern problems with the main solutions appearing to be along the lines of " clobber the less well off" ? As per usual.......already impossible to attend a major retail outlet without a car , Trafford centre Bluewater Cheshire Oaks et Al. Seemed a good idea at the time didn't it? Killed small town retailers off on altar of greed of the " chains"

Why does my head hurt, growstuff? And why are there grey hairs all over the floor?

It sounds like part of the plotline of the series Years and Years which, as the story went on, showed the introduction of more and more restrictions.

I don't like the sound of it at all. I agree that people should be encouraged to use their cars less often (I believe most car journeys are only for short distances), but I think the idea that you can take charge of people's lives to this extent is worrying.

I think the extension of ULEZ to the outer London boroughs is unfair - and some say it will have an insignificant effect on air pollution. Many people who live in the boroughs more distant from central London do so because they can't afford to live closer. Now they may not be able to use their current cars and cannot afford to buy another one. Obviously, it is better to walk or take public transport but that isn't always a practical option, and it seems very unfair that it is invariably poorer people who, in relative terms, pay the biggest price when such measures are introduced.

LadyHonoriaDedlock

Why does my head hurt, growstuff? And why are there grey hairs all over the floor?

You can't beat a good conspiracy theory, LadyH

but the concepts of people using butchers etc is something that for the majority if people isnt a reality.

Try telling that to the three thriving butchers shops up the road and down the road from me, ^Galaxy*... This isn't 'middle class', it's reality.

(When OH and I were in full time work we went to the local butchers on Saturday.)

You missed our Lidl and Aldi, too...

Gabrielle56

growstuff

grantante What you're saying supports the idea of 15 minute cities. They're not about the traffic flow systems, but trying to ensure that most of the facilities people need for daily living are within a 15 minute walk or bike ride for most people. They would make traffic flow systems unnecessary.

And severely restrict free movement for everyone! Non runner on the idea of imposing restrictions, try persuasion? Maybe coughing up for electric vehicles for the working classes? That's anyone who works for a wage. Or encouraging industries to pry themselves away from concentrated cesspits of cities and overcrowded areas, sharing wealth and jobs more fairly? So many other ways to deal with modern issues, maybe old fashioned minds incapable of dealing with modern problems with the main solutions appearing to be along the lines of " clobber the less well off" ? As per usual.......already impossible to attend a major retail outlet without a car , Trafford centre Bluewater Cheshire Oaks et Al. Seemed a good idea at the time didn't it? Killed small town retailers off on altar of greed of the " chains"

But but but the the concept of 15 minute cities isn't about restricting movement for everybody. That's just what the conspiracy theory loons would want you to believe, when they bang on about "freeeeeeeedom". Freedom from what?

They've weaponised the 15 minute city theory to strengthen their argument against traffic flow systems.

MaizieD

LadyHonoriaDedlock

Why does my head hurt, growstuff? And why are there grey hairs all over the floor?

You can't beat a good conspiracy theory, LadyH

Yeah well! They got a bit bored with the anti-mask stuff, but who would have thought they'd have hijacked a perfectly sound theory, which has been around for years?