To me......being called 'woke' is a compliment

aonk I know what you mean.
It’s a word so laden with connotation and misunderstanding that it’s a word that I wouldn’t actually choose to use.

I think that lots of people would think of me as ‘woke’, but there’s probably lots of others who would think that I’m not ‘woke’ enough.

It’s all a bit ‘political correctness gawn mad’ and Richard Littlejohn for me.

As the only reader of the Daily Mail on here, I can assure you that they chuck the word woke around with gay abandon.

It’s definitely taken on a life of its own.
The Syed series is definitely worth a listen

I think that because 'woke' is an abstract noun, it has meaning in the head of the user. Yes, the original meaning was someone alive to injustice, but what that means in practice is open to interpretation. As with 'kind', or 'love' or 'beauty', people have different ideas of which actions qualify for the description.

As for 'white privilege', I think it is a very misleading term, as the word 'privilege' suggests that the phrase means that all white people (and their ancestors) have been in positions of power and superiority, which clearly is not the case. What it means is that white people have the advantage that whether rich or poor we don't have the added problem of being suspected of crimes, being overlooked for jobs, being unable to find products suitable for us (eg hair treatments for afro hair, or dark foundation creams) outside of cities or areas with large 'ethnic' populations, and so on. Some people of colour are rich, many white people are poor, but the things I've mentioned (and there are many others) only apply to people of colour.

woke is an adjective.

Other than that, we agree.

If woke means being aware then I am aware but that does not mean that I agree with all the nonsense about gender etc, it just means I keep my mouth shut.

Except on Gransnet anonymity of course.

Is it an abstract noun in this context, Doodledog?? I always think of it as an adjective. (Sorry for the slight threadjack).

Also, not facing overt and covert discrimination and its impacts on education, jobs, homes, the law, influence and power, is surely a privileged position to be in?

Discrimination is complex though isnt it. I wouldnt say women were in a privileged position in society yet in education it is boys who perform worse and many would argue that the system discriminates against them. I think identity politics tends to simplify issues that are very complex.

Juliet27

I’d like to be known as a kelpie too volver as it’s a beautiful Australian dog

That was my first thought. I've seen Kelpies' with the sheerers taking part in the the sheap sheering competition at The Easter Show, in Sydney.

Also, not facing overt and covert discrimination and its impacts on education, jobs, homes, the law, influence and power, is surely a privileged position to be in?
And that includes discrimination relating to age as well, which can impact on all of us.

Foxygloves

I was a Kelpie in the Brownies

Wow! I’d forgotten all about that. That’s definitely brought back memories.
I was a Sprite.
It was very Pagan of the Brownies to have those groups.
Dryads!

I don’t want to be called woke. I don’t want to be called not woke. I know language changes and develops all the time, but I dislike the way this word has developed to either insult people, either for being too woke, or not enough woke. It would be nice if we could all be nice to one another and leave the virtue signalling and the shaming of other people out of it.
Live your life, be nice to other people, contribute to charity of you can afford to, be polite, support the underdog when you can, and don’t worry about it all. There are plenty of other words to describe kindness, understanding and compassion.

I always think "wokey dokey" when people call me woke lol

White privilege I was given to understand means, having never been discriminated against for your white skin, specifically while living in the same society, in the same social, political and economical conditions.

It's not hard to understand and shouldn't be confused with "privilege" in general once you understand the definition

Fanny you’ve done well to remember the six you were in when you were a Brownie (are they still called Brownies? Is that still allowed?) I remember there were Fairies, Elves, were there Pixies? I can’t remember the others and can’t remember what six I was in.

Kandinsky

Honestly, you’d think people weren’t aware of social injustice before this word came out of America a few years ago.
But if being called this new term makes people happier then great.

But it's used these days as a derogatory term by people critical of those who care about social injustice.

If you're right, why didn't people used to criticise those who were aware of social injustice?

volver3

woke is an adjective.

Other than that, we agree.

Ok then, 'wokeness' is an abstract noun? I would argue that defining it as 'the state of being 'awake'' makes it an abstract noun, but I wouldn't do so in court, as I'm not really sure.

Anyway, as it's used now (as opposed to the original meaning of a form of 'not being asleep') it is abstract, and has more in common with words like 'love', 'beauty' and 'kindness', which is why its use can be problematic.

So that's cleared that up! 😵‍💫

Yes I dont like shaming either maddy, it has quite a religious element to it I think.

I haven't heard a french person say woke yet, hope it stays that way.

maddyone

Fanny you’ve done well to remember the six you were in when you were a Brownie (are they still called Brownies? Is that still allowed?) I remember there were Fairies, Elves, were there Pixies? I can’t remember the others and can’t remember what six I was in.

I was a Kelpie. I remember Fairies, Elves, Pixies, Imps and Sprites, and in Scotland, we also had the Ghillie Dhu. There may have been more.

biglouis

To me "wokery" has become intertwined with lots of rubbish about pulling down statues and people of my generation being made to feel they should apologize for what their grandparents did in the empire, as well as white privilage. My parents did not feel very privilaged in their tiny two up two down with no bathroom and Ive done more than my share for society so I have no patience with all this trendy garbage.

That's another example of somebody twisting a word to fit their own definition. That's not what wokery is about, although right wing reactionaries would like you to think that it is.

I don’t know anyone who describes themselves as woke, except on social media as a quick way of saying ‘leftish, progressive politics with both a capital and lower case P here, don’t follow me if that’s not your cup of tea’.

I know lots of issues, and some people, which are called woke by those who don’t share the same politics, ethics or worldview.

That’s a shockingly badly written sentence, sorry.

Galaxy I broadly agree. But I think white privilege is probably the least conflicted area of identity politics; there may be degrees within it, but to be born white in a majority white society, or a non-white society where the rules are set by white people, is to be born with advantage (and differing levels of advantages).

Doodledog

volver3

woke is an adjective.

Other than that, we agree.

Ok then, 'wokeness' is an abstract noun? I would argue that defining it as 'the state of being 'awake'' makes it an abstract noun, but I wouldn't do so in court, as I'm not really sure.

Anyway, as it's used now (as opposed to the original meaning of a form of 'not being asleep') it is abstract, and has more in common with words like 'love', 'beauty' and 'kindness', which is why its use can be problematic.

So that's cleared that up! 😵‍💫

😉

But again not in education for example where those from Asian backgrounds outperform white working class pupils by miles. This isnt denying white privilege it's just saying discrimination tends to be complex, and in the identity politics hierarchy discrimination by class isnt really considered.

When I was born, there was barely a black or brown person to be found, so of course the rules were set by white people. However it is not the case now. Our Prime Minister and many of his ministers are not white, not is the Mayor of London or the First Minister of Scotland. There are many others in all layers of government up and down the country. Rules are now set by people from a variety of ethnicities in this country, and that certainly is not very evident in other countries as far as I can see. In fact I can’t think of a single European state with a leader from an ethnic minority.

halfpint1

I haven't heard a french person say woke yet, hope it stays that way.

Ah, bon?

www.independent.co.uk/voices/french-woke-blanquer-trump-b1958903.html

Anyway, putting my own head above the parapet, I would describe myself as 'woke', as I am (or try to be - let's not get into 'white fragility' :grin neither racist, sexist nor homophobic, but there are Some People on here who would say that I am definitely not, as I don't support self-id as being something that should give men an automatic right to enter women's spaces. I could argue that they are not woke to the rights of the women being denied those spaces. And we've all seen where that leads .

It's the same with other similar concepts. Whether it is 'kind' to tell someone their bum looks big in their favourite dress is debatable, and my idea of 'beauty' is not necessarily the same as that of others.

So there's the rub. 'Woke', as with 'kind', has no fixed meaning when in use, and pretty much lives in the head of the user, even though the concept of 'woke' has a firm meaning.

volver3

biglouis

To me "wokery" has become intertwined with lots of rubbish about pulling down statues and people of my generation being made to feel they should apologize for what their grandparents did in the empire, as well as white privilage. My parents did not feel very privilaged in their tiny two up two down with no bathroom and Ive done more than my share for society so I have no patience with all this trendy garbage.

That's what they want you to believe biglouis.

Seems like you've fallen for it.

I'll be back later to explain white privilege, because that's not what you think it is either.

biglouis
Get ready to be educated 😂 I hope you’re sitting comfortably and going to take notes. Questions will be asked at the end. 😱