Went out to bring in bin and got ambushed by neighbour of no 4. There are 3 houses in a line. I live at no 2. No 3 is a neighbour I have never got on with, now clearly with dementia or similar. Unable to follow a conversation or simple instructions and becoming very aggressive if she does not immediately get her way. Husband of 3 died 2 years ago, a kindly but weak man who was relentlessly bullied by her. We have never got on in the 20 years Ive lived here and I no longer open the door to her. There is a walkway behind the houses and Ive seen her drifting along wearing what look like pyjamas and flip flops (with no coat) on a very cold day. Seems to have been befriended by no 4 who lives on the other side.
4 tells me a rambling story about how 3 lived with her adult daughter for months following husbands death but had now returned. Daughter and sibling want to sell the house and use the money to buy a bigger property so 3 can live with daughter. However 3 has dug her heels in and refused to leave the 5 bed family home where she now lives alone. Both adult children live a distance away and can only visit every 2/3 weeks. Daughter is very worried about her mum and tries to phone every day. 3 does not always answer or return calls and sometimes daughter can go several days without speaking to mum.
Daughter and 4 have come up with a plan to have 2 immediate neighbours hold keys and provide a contact number. Daughter can then phone keyholder (in case of no contact with mum) and ask them to call round (and/if necessary) to use key to make sure all is well with 3. 4 tells me she is happy to be a keyholder but she has a “very important job” as an area sales manager and is often away. So she and daughter thought I might like to be the other keyholder. At this point she stands outside my (locked) gate dangling a set of keys in her hand.
I was tempted to tell her that I also have a “very important job” in that I run an international business. However this is not information I share with neighbours. It was more the annoying inference that I had time on my hands which was less valuable than her “very important” managerial position.
For multiple reasons I said absolutely no. Main reason being that I myself have significant mobility issues and would be of no use in case 3 needed physical assistance of any kind. We have never got on and I am reluctant to get involved in her affairs. I asked if this “plan” had been discussed with 3, as I cannot imagine my being at the top of a list of potential people whom 3 might want to enter her home unannounced. Even if I was physically fit I would be very reluctant to go alone into someone’s home in such circumstances.
4 tried to guilt me by saying well it probably wont happen very often and surely you can do a small kindness for a sick neighbour whose family live elsewhere. I suspect that this plan had been dreamed up between 4 and the daughter without any reference to or consultation with 3.
I left 4 standing there and told her my answer was final. There are plenty of able bodied neighbours she and daughter can ask to participate in their little scheme. When I told my nephew the first thing he said was that I could be accused (by the relatives) of stealing something or abusing or harming 3, given our stormy history and her tendency to become aggressive without warning.
Good grief, you did right imo
I am proud of the fact that I was simply rather "snippy" with 4 and did not give her down the banks (as we say in Liverpool for a good telling off). My nephew wanted to go and give her "what for" but I told him to leave it. I just wont open the door to her.
What annoyed me most was not the request that I hold keys/provide contact details for a needy neighbour. Rather it was this mention of her "very important" job and the assertion that anything I, as a presumably retired person, needed to do was less important or demanding than this highly responsible role.
The entitlement of some people is monumental.
Based on my personal experiences of a similar situation - wise decision Biglouis. Keep that gate locked.
4 knows very well it’s a big deal which is why she’s trying to pass the buck to OP and absolve herself of responsibility
I understand that there are people who are "private" carers (not attached to social services) and one can hire them as required. They need to put someone on a retainer to be able to check on 3 if the need arises, and who will know what to do if she is ill or has an accident. Or, as several posters have indicated. sign her up with an alarm service or install a descreet camera. In point of fact 3 is not physically frail and seems to zip along quite swiftly - she is much fitter than I am in the physical sense. So she is not frail.
A few years back one of my relatives had a stroke. Because he was unable to reach anyone to alert them he lay on the floor for 2 days before he was discovered. People who have already had a stroke are more likely to have another so he now has a cctv camera installed in the hallway of his flat. It doesnt infringe his privacy but he has to pass it when he goes to the front door/pick up mail. So if the camera does not show movement for a day or more his relatives will know something may be wrong and investigate.
You are absolutely right, this is not your problem. The family will have to make proper arrangements. If the woman has POA in place then the relatives can make the decisions. If the neighbour is deemed to be unable to care for herself then POA comes into force.
I think that you were absolutely right , Biglouis .
It's really up to your neighbour's relatives to get her an alarm and carers .
They could install security cameras .
If she isn't answering the phone then she's not cooperating with them .
Perhaps they don't understand your unfortunate history with her .
Or maybe , they don't want to understand .
It's really cheeky of the neighbour at number four to delegate these duties to you .
You were absolutely right to stand your ground .
The situation might be different it you were well enough to cope and if you had a good relationship and enjoyed the company with/of this lady - but even so it's entirely your choice and decision .
Lunching with friends this week , we were discussing just how impossible our elderly relatives can be .
I said , if they ruled the roost when young and healthy when they get older they don't morph into sweet and pleasant people .
They laughed and agreed .
So if you didn't get on with this difficult neighbour it isn't going to be easy .
And continue to ignore the attempted guilt trip .
Good luck .
Being a key holder also means you are contacted at any time of the day or night if said person falls and has a Mecs alarm. A friend and I had that discussion a couple of days ago. So don't give out your phone number unless you are prepared for that. It is really kind of people who are key holders for neighbours who have become friends but in OPs case, definitely not
well done biglouis, absolutely the right answer, especially well done for thinking on your feet. Not your responsibility at all.
A bit similar to me at the moment, wrt a neighbour. I am keeping my distance in all ways, he will need permanent help and his AC will be going back home in a few weeks. He is still in hospital. It took one statement several weeks ago when he was ok and at home `you could always get the shopping for me` well no I won`t and I will make myself unavailable. I know I will be asked and thank you for posting biglouis, that has prepped me for when they ask me to be a key holder.
Apologies. First line above should say. I would have done the same in your situation.
Of course you were right to refuse biglouis. I would have in your situation. .
We act as keyholders for a friend and neighbour and have a key box number for our immediate neighbour. Both after discussion, none of the people involved have dementia and in both cases we have contact numbers for family. Our friend fell last year and we cared for her as best we could until an ambulance arrived. Also helping her post surgery. She is a friend, not a neighbour we don’t get along with, a very different situation.
As I started to read your post I could feel my blood pressure rising for you. Half way through I was thinking 'please don't agree'. When I read that you had said 'no' I let out a huge sigh of relief. Well done, biglouis, you have very wisely saved yourself a lot of aggro. At the end of the day the lady from No. 3 is her children's responsibility and they have to provide support for her. You need to look after yourself.
Of course you were absolutely correct in saying no!! How dare they put you in that situation. It's one thing to keep an eye on a vulnerable neighbour and but quite another to be a key holder / carer?
If you had agreed you would have been in a very vulnerable situation, the lady with dementia could well accuse you of theft or abuse. Stand your ground - I feel sure you will!
We have seen it plenty of times on this board - a difficult family member making an already complex situation even harder
Well one of the things that made me angry with 4 (apart from her "very important job") was that she did this little speech on the above lines. How elderly people can be stubbborn and awkward and suspicious when their relatives only want what is best for them. This came after the story about how 3's children wanted her to put the house up for sale to free up capital.
I thought that was quite a patronising way to speak to me. I told her in a snippy tone that I too was "elderly" and could be very stubborn but that I did not allow family and much less neighbours to tell me what to do with my property.
Strangely enough I had noticed that there had recently been workmen pressure washing the roof at 3 and gardners tidying up the garden as if they wanted the house to look its best. Ive also heard other "work" type noise from next door. So I am wondering to what extent the two siblings are preparing to go ahead and cajole their mum to put the house on the market.
None of my business of course.
I wouldn't blame the family without knowing the whole picture
"However 3 has dug her heels in and refused to leave the 5 bed family home where she now lives alone"
The neighbour may also be against having carers come in, fire them or be in denial of her condition
We have seen it plenty of times on this board - a difficult family member making an already complex situation even harder
The family has to step up and take charge.
Well done for not taking on that responsibility and for someone who you don’t get along with. You have your own health issues. So, you have done the right thing
How can the family think that their Mother can be left alone at all?
What if she leaves the door open, or a pan on the heat?
It seems to me her falling over is the least of their problems.
Well done for standing your ground.
Lomo123
Another well done. Absolute cheek even asking. Not a neighbours responsibility, esp a difficult one!.
No, it's not a neighbour's responsibility but neighbours often do look out for each other and a keyholder who lives nearby is only required to check if called in an emergency and then alert other services or family.
However, the circumstances biglouis describes are not at all straightforward and the neighbour is difficult.
Another well done. Absolute cheek even asking. Not a neighbours responsibility, esp a difficult one!.
Luckygirl3 a pendant alarm is likely to be no use for a person with dementia, since they are all too liable to forget to wear it/forget what it’s for even if they do/hide it/bin it.
OP, you did the right thing. We have been keyholders for very frail elderly neighbours, and although we’ve known them for ever and are very fond of them, there’s no denying that it was fairly often very worrying and time consuming. (E.g. waiting with them for an ambulance after a fall.)
Or failing the GP , the social services.
It seems in the absence of an agency that orchestrates care for vulnerable individuals, the more people who take an active supervisory interest in the vulnerable person, the better.
There is no special reason the woman's GP should be the orchestrating agency, but it seems to be the case that in the absence of such agency the GP gets to deal with these loopholes in the care system.
You did well Big Louis to refuse hands-on care . However I think you might alert her GP to her vulnerable circumstances.
Absolutely 100% correct decision on your part!!
It sounds like 3's daughter is trying her best but the solution is not to saddle her mother's neighbours with an impossible burden.
If 4 really thinks it's not a big deal, then she isn't concentrating!!
You have done the right thing keep completely out of it and keep saying no. If she has dementia she might not realise what her daughter has set up and be aggressive
If it's any help you are not the only one in this type of position.
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