Sex education in UK schools but not as we knew it!

To be homosexual is just one characteristic of a whole authentic self. It can’t be fundamentally changed along with many other of your characteristics.

But a cat can’t be your authentic self. It can only be your perceived or adopted self.

It isn’t the same thing at all.

What has homophobia to do with any of this?

Doodledog

What has homophobia to do with any of this?

Nothing.

Norah

Doodledog

What has homophobia to do with any of this?

Nothing.

That's what I thought.

It is so tiresome hearing that concern about so-called 'gender' (and now identification with animals) is in any way similar to homophobia and racism. It really hasn't.

isn't.

Doodledog

What has homophobia to do with any of this?

Absolutely nothing, but the indiscriminate use of gay people to try and muddy the waters is a common ruse. The homosexual people I know are sick to death of being used as a stick to beat others with. Homosexuality is just that, a sexual orientation and totally different to assumed identity.
Saying you are a cat, expecting others to agree you are a cat despite the evidence of their own eyes, expecting special treatment are all such narcissistic behaviours. Behaviours that have impacts on other people, often to their detriment.

Define hurting others?
Should children who find concentrating in class difficult are allowed to be distracted because it stopping a child mewing might upset the mewer? Who is being hurt?
Should children who laugh at what appears to them to be ridiculous be punished because the ‘cat’ is upset at being laughed at?
Who is being hurt?
Children who don’t want to be part of the I’ve chosen to go to an all girls school but now I’m a boy gang and are consequently bullied, and subject to appalling and untrue texts passed round, whilst any objections by staff or pupils are designated transphobia and subject to punishment because the gang members are ‘hurt’ by the refusal to join their actions.
I’m sorry for mentioning this repeatedly but the actions of those children ruined school for my DGD, even worse because now all except the ringleader have abandoned the cause once it stopped giving them power.
Who is hurt?
Othering, and discrimination, are two way actions and hurt can go both ways.

I'm miles behind everyone else

But homophobia was mentioned and I had something to say about it

Mollygo your granddaughter's experience will sadly not be unique. The power accorded to these "special" people to hurt and disrupt the experience of others is appalling. They indeed "other" all and any that they choose, and regrettably authority is too cowardly to challenge them in this power play. Your personal experience of the effect on innocent bystanders is important and more valuable than all the theory that seems to dominate.

Here’s another article from the Telegraph (it is unlikely that such a story will be told in the Graun - or if there is it will be biased in favour of the Stonewall agenda). Maybe there will soon be guidance that makes some sort of sense:

School which allowed child to identify as a cat faces Government investigation
Teacher at Rye College in East Sussex was recorded suggesting a pupil who refused to accept her classmate was a cat that she was despicable
By
Louisa Clarence-Smith,
EDUCATION EDITOR ;
Tony Diver,
WHITEHALL CORRESPONDENT and
Amy Gibbons
20 June 2023 • 8:57pm
On Tuesday Downing Street told headteachers that they should not be teaching children that they can identify as cats or other animals
A school at the centre of a row over children identifying as animals is facing a Government investigation, The Telegraph can reveal.

A teacher at Rye College, a state secondary in East Sussex, was recorded telling a pupil who refused to accept her classmate was a cat that she was despicable.

Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary, is understood to have ordered an investigation into the Church of England school.

The Telegraph has revealed that at other schools teachers are allowing children to identify as horses, dinosaurs and even moons.

On Tuesday Downing Street told headteachers that they should not be teaching children that they can identify as cats or other animals.

A source close to Mrs Keegan said: “Teachers should not be teaching contested ideology as fact. They must have due regard to safeguarding if a pupil identifies as an animal.”

It is understood that she has ordered the Department for Education’s regional director for the South East to visit Rye College and investigate whether pupils’ safety has been put at risk.

Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary, is understood to have ordered an investigation into the Church of England school
Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary, is understood to have ordered an investigation into the Church of England school
Pupils were told they would be reported to a senior school leader for refusing to affirm their classmate’s preferred feline identity. The teacher said they had “really upset” the “cat” by telling them “you’re a girl”.

After the pupils said they believed there are only two genders, the teacher said: “Why do you think we have so many problems in the world with homophobia?”

The Telegraph can reveal that teaching assistants at other schools are taking children who identify as horses out cantering and feeding strips of meat to those who consider themselves to be dinosaurs.

On Tuesday a spokesman for Rishi Sunak said children should not be taught “contested opinions as fact”, and said they should not be influenced by the “personal views” of teachers when discussing transgender issues.

He said: “It’s important parents and carers are reassured that children aren’t being influenced by personal views of those teaching them. Any example that strays from this would be wrong and we would expect headteachers to act.”

Tory backbenchers have urged the Prime Minister to ban children from being allowed to change their pronouns at school in the wake of the row.

Nadhim Zahawi, the former education secretary, said: “It is clear to everyone that schools need to stop the spread of this damaging nonsense. The Government should make it clear to schools that they will be supported in standing up to the increasingly farcical examples that get in the way of teaching our children and preparing them for the real world. We should let kids be kids and stop them falling into the trap of identity politics.”

Rye College in East Sussex said that 'teachers endeavour to ensure that pupils’ views are listened to'
Priti Patel, the former home secretary, said: “We need a bit of ‘take back control’ for parents.”

She added: “Rishi needs to make good his pledge around relationships and sex education but this applies equally to issues on gender. I maintain that this issue is for parents, not schools, and that is what the Government’s position should be.”

The Government has pledged to release new draft guidance on how to respond to pupils who identify as transgender before the end of term. An independent panel has also been appointed to review the DfE’s sex education guidance and report back in the autumn.

Nick Hewlett, head of St Dunstan’s College, a co-educational independent school in southeast London, said teachers have been forced to make “individual judgements” over children affirming different identities because of a lack of Government guidance.

‘No guidance for schools is a recipe for disaster’
Asked about children self-identifying as different genders or animals, he said that having no guidance was “a recipe for disaster”.

“You need guidance around it, and the only way that you can do that is by relying on the Department for Education to provide it.

“If they don’t provide it, where do schools go? They rely on just the individual judgement of individual teachers, all of whom will have their own slightly different view over how it should be approached and the extent to which they’re prepared to accept it or not.”

Stella O’Malley, a psychotherapist and director of Genspect, who works with vulnerable children, said: “Teachers are working in a vacuum. They don’t know much about this and, in a bid to be kind, they are going to cause long-term distress.

“If you are going to enable a child to be dehumanised, if they are using any pronoun that isn’t ‘he’ or ‘she’, it’s literally dehumanising them. I think it is something that they [teachers] will regret in the long term, when it emerges that they have been led by an ideology and it has no evidence base.”

‘We’re committed to offering inclusive education’
A spokesperson for Rye College, said: “Whilst we are not aware at this stage of any plans for a visit from the Department for Education, we will continue to keep them proactively updated on this situation and would of course support any enquiries they may have.

“We are committed to offering our pupils an inclusive education. Teachers endeavour to ensure that pupils’ views are listened to, and encourage them to ask questions and engage in discussion. Teachers also aim to answer questions sensitively and honestly.

“We strive to uphold the highest standards across the school. We are reviewing our processes and working with the relevant individuals to ensure such events do not take place in the future.”

Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “We haven’t heard about this arising as an issue in schools. There are nine million children in England’s schools so it is not surprising that all sorts of things crop up in discussions in classrooms. Teachers and leaders are very good at dealing with whatever situation arises.”

Teachers have been told to 'use their common sense' but if they get it wrong, that is there are complaints from parents, children or other members of staff, they receive no support from the school whatsoever.
The DfE has given no definitive guidance, (wait until Autumn) even though teachers have already been sacked because they refuse to use incorrect pronouns, and Headteachers fear Ofsted (remember Ruth Perry and her school deemed inadequate because of one area found lacking; still no apology.)
Meanwhile the insidious propaganda put out by Stonewall and other dubious organisations continues to infiltrate schools and teachers promote 'contested opinions as fact'.

A child has to be treated as a cat.
Honestly?

It's an awful state of affairs.

'Common sense' is a meaningless term at best - it usually means 'thinking as I do' . And yes, knowing that if you get it wrong there will be sanctions is just going to add stress to an already difficult situation.

What do teaching unions have to say on the matter? There must be numerous members asking for advice. I know that UCU is 'captured', but don't know the position of the NUT or other teaching unions - does anyone know?

Given the furore over the outed recording between the pupil and the teacher at Rye senior school, it almost appears as if no one has any idea of what is being taught in these lessons, not the government or more importantly, the parents. Given just how shocked the reaction has been towards what obviously amounts to bullying on the teacher's part to a reasoned argument by the pupil who had a clear understanding of scientific facts in spite of being fed the misnomer that there are umpteen genders. Surely as distorted as imbuing pupils at fundamental Christian schools that the earth is only 6,000 years old. I think the teacher should categorically have stated that an array of genders is "a point of view and a personal feeling" the girl rightly stated that her belief in two genders was her point of view before it was dismissed in the arrogant "what ever gave you the idea there are only two genders"

Clearly the identification issue has opened up a whole gamut of possibilities some obviously are a piss take As for identifying as a horse well neigh to that for crying out loud, a cat at least! Having been around a friend of mine who had a horse, the amount of time and money given over to horse ownership was an eye opener, I was once hours at a stable with her while she did all the necessaries, digging out the animal's hoofs, mucking out changing its hay in the loose box, oh yes! you need one of those, so schools will need to factor all of that into their budget. As for dinosaurs, well they're extinct, but even if they weren't it might be suggested to dinosaur identifiers that possibly they should present as a plant eating one so they can forage for their foodstuffs themselves instead of being fed strips of meat by a member of the school staff The Telegraph reported it, but I can't believe that any sane person would go along with such bollocks indulgent weirdness.

Does anyone else have imagined conversations with their late parents wondering if in imparting such notions to them they would think that they have entered a parallel universe where sanity has been lost somewhere in the mists of time

Oh and I forgot to add I read that Elon Musk, not everyone's cup of tea I know, has stated that "cis" and "cisgender" is now regarded as a slur on Twitter, so maybe the tide is turning.

I’ve had a day off after a but of a domestic when I left a velum window open 2 nights ago. Conservatory roof bowed, furniture, rugs destroyed. Anyway - just read quickly through this thread and find myself veering between doing a Violet and lol.
Then feeling worried and incredulous about children identifying as cats/unicorns/horses and this being not just tolerated but encouraged. Taking horses our for a canter, allowing a cat to disrupt the lesson by miaowing. Absolutely daft.
Avoiding school work by disruptive behaviour is a well established tactic. The task for teachers has to be having the experience and skill to understand how to respond. Indulging disruptive attention seeking behaviour isn’t helping. Be a cat at home but at school, be a child/young person.

Each time we hear of a new low in this 'debate' I think that it will 'peak' enough people to turn the tide. A lot of people who don't have children or grandchildren, and who operate outside of the public sector have little or no idea about the issues beyond a general (and laudable) desire to be tolerant of others, which I think is responsible for a lot of the apparent apathy about it all.

Then something like this gets widely reported, and brings the reality into sharper focus. It can't take much more before there is a collective belief that the grown ups need to regain charge of the situation, and that the government needs to step up.

After listening to this teachers rant to a pupil,she should be suspended immediately. Teachers have been sacked for less. This is outright bullying by someone who shouldn't even be in a classroom. Government need to take firm action onthis insidious creeping into our class rooms by trans lobbyists.

I wish this government would stop fart arsing around and get some sort of grip on this new found "McCarthyism". Over on MN one mum posted that her 10 year old daughter had been told in one lesson that boys could have periods. Children aren't adults and can't assimilate distortions. The poster said that was presented as a fact not "boys who have periods" are in fact biologically still female. Too much too young is going to equate to confusion and unnecessary worries at such a tender age.

A number of posters on MN said that the material taught in these lessons isn't allowed to be brought home and parents seem to have a helluva battle when asked to be allowed to view the prospectus.

Terribull
but I can't believe that any sane person would go along with (such bollocks) indulgent weirdness.
Which sane person indeed!

I’m not querying here whether what the teacher said was right. I’ve already expressed my views on that. Though I am querying why anyone was recording that specific time, or at all.

But the cat business looks like a definite follow on to the power play that started with I’m a boy and waned for those who weren’t really interested in being a boy, just in exerting power over pupils and staff who feared for their jobs if they got it wrong.

And where will it stop?

Will we be hearing

Teacher watches helpless as Melanie (who has filed her nails to razor points) violently attacks another child’s face, whilst identifying as a tiger?

Or ^Simon stabs classmates with olive fork dipped in toxin whilst identifying as a serpent.^🐍

Or pupil identifies as a vigilante and feels he has the right to kill those who offended him? We’ve already seen that happen, though the attackers haven’t yet used the identifying as excuse.

That may sound far fetched, but why not allow those, if you allow a cat?

Once the cat fantasy has been ‘normalised’ and is no use as a power tool, should we just wait for the escalation.

Where does the hurt start?

Which hurt should take precedence?

The cat’s, or tiger’s, or snake’s, hurt because people don’t go along with their fantasy?

Or the pupils hurt, being unable to work or being attacked, or punished for laughing or not accepting that one person’s lie is OK

Or the teacher’s hurt at dealing with yet another disruption with the fear of job loss hanging over them?

Schools are for humans identifying as humans.

Other animals’ needs cannot not catered for in school and should be addressed at home.

Rôle play is only used in drama or imaginative play activities

Perhaps that needs to be part of any government’s guidance.

It is twelve years since I retired so I don't know how active the unions are in this matter. The NUT is now part of the NEU whose main concern is persuading teachers to strike, and I don't know the policy of the other unions either. I noted that the teachers sacked did not appear to be supported by recognisable teaching unions.

The problem is the lack of guidelines so it seems that teachers are left pretty much to find their own materials for PSHE, hence some of the alarming worksheets that were shown on one of the threads posted here. I know a mother has lost her case about being able to see teaching materials before her daughter was taught from them, which I find surprising. With relation to the sex education materials introduced in Years 5 and 6 parents were invited to a meeting to see the videos and worksheets used, and raise any issues of concern, and most parents took up the invitation.

When teaching such a controversial subject the aim must be to keep personal views out of it and deal with established facts, but what counts as established facts nowadays?

Still wrong to record a lesson and post it online.
Should have been shown to parents who then made the complaint, but I expect the pupil knew she would be in trouble for unauthorised recording, no matter what the content.

Telling a class of 10 year old's that boys can have periods is absolutely ridiculous and IMO would have been just as ridiculous if it had been properly stated that 'boys who have periods are biologically female'.

What affect is all of this nonsense having on these children?

Staff taking children identifying as a horse out for a canter. Staff feeding children strips of meat if they're identifying as a dinosaur. 10 year old's being told about boys who have periods.

This needs to stop and that's what the Government needs to tell all schools. Schools are a place of learning, learning about what we know is fact and boys cannot have periods.

Schools are a place of learning, not a place for living out one's fantasy of feeling like/identifying as an animal. As you've posted Mollygo "Role play is only used in drama or imaginative play activities".

This has nonsense has already gone too far, and needs to be stopped now before it goes any further.

Isn't it a good job she did record it eazybee. Who'd have believed it if she hadn't?

i agree that recording classes is out of order (in fact the intellectual copyright belongs to the school), but at times it must seem like the only way - how many of us would have believed something so ridiculous had we not heard it.

In fact, on Twitter, many TRAs were insisting that the story was an exaggeration, denying that it happened and blaming the Mail for sensationalism, until the link to the recording was published, when the story changed to 'Oh, but it's ok - it's just a stage of development. How can we know what feelings people have? Blah blah authentic selves'

A classic case of 'That didn't happen. 
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
 And if it was, that's not a big deal.' (aka The Narcissist's Prayer)

Snap, Smileless