Train fares, should they be subsidised?

I know of several couples who have moved back into central London in their 70's due to the plentiful and efficient supply of free public transport and better provision of NHS care, not to mention the arts and leisure facilities that are now available to them.
Yes , they were lucky to be able to downsize to afford a 2 bed apartment but my goodness their lifestyle now is amazing. Levelling up to provide the same transport structures in all large cities would certainly help everybody , workers and retirees , it could also release some larger homes for families.

lots do not use so why should we the tax payers pay for the ones that do?

Levelling up to provide the same transport structures in all large cities would certainly help everybody , workers and retirees , it could also release some larger homes for families.

Absolutely. As to why non-users should pay towards improving transport for those who do use it - it would encourage people to stop taking cars everywhere and polluting the atmosphere. We pay for healthcare, education and all sorts of things that we may or may not use ourselves so that they are there if we do want or need them.

The railway company’s cash flow is improved by people buying season tickets so they are willing to give a discount to encourage that. I wouldn’t call it a subsidy.

It is not easy to find the cheapest train fare as OP has found. Ticket buying is a nightmare but was made better by the kind man in ticket office at Manchester airport who suggested a cheaper ride for me, when I arrived there.
I would prefer to travel by train but it is cheaper to fly or travel as a single person by car.

Public transport is subsidised, just not enough. Here we have a bus service into the City and it has been reduced in frequency due to the cut in subsidy.

Like with the NHS and many other major parts of our lives, transport needs big thinking, more perhaps than can be done within one tenure of office, and it needs all party approval. If we are to aim for net zero, improve the air we breathe, we need to plan big, and pay big. Sadly, I don't think it will happen as we have already seen the result in Uxbridge due to the ULEZ charges.

Trains can be quite reasonably priced though, but you have to invest a bit of time online on the website trainline. By doing so, you will see that getting one particular train instead of another, considerable savings can be made. I also think that ticket offices, with their helpful advice on saving money when travelling with children or as a group, should be retained.

If governments are serious about ending the environmental crisis that has been in part caused by our massive use of fossil fuels, then all public transport should not be subsidised but be entirely funded from the state budget and a massive tax imposed upon anyone who persisted in using a private vehicle, apart from those with mobility issues.

Of course to be able to do so, most countries would need to re-think their budgets very carefully, pay their politicians a great deal less in salaries and perks and improve public transport, so that no matter where you lived you could actually get to where you need to be reasonably quickly.

A very small amount of the funds necessary would be available as we would no longer have to ruin good arable land by building bigger and better motorways and bridges! Or pay police for running speed controls etc.

I don't expect to see this happening in my lifetime, but it would be nice if it did!

I don't expect to see this happening in my lifetime, but it would be nice if it did!

Wouldn't it?

Imagine living on a bleak council estate miles from the nearest city, with no cinema, theatre, shopping centre or facilities such as bowling or similar for your children. If there is a bus an hour that costs £8 each way, and you have to lug your shopping with you, how likely is it that you will have a healthy diet? Or that you get to take part in anything cultural other than the TV that people resent you for having? Or that you will make friends with people from different areas, who may introduce you to new ideas or activities and broaden your horizons? Or that your children will stay out of trouble if they have nothing to do but hang around the streets? Or that you will be able to learn new skills to help you to get a job that will help you to afford to move away?

Transport is vital.

Just a slight correction to the idea that in London people over 60 get travel free. They do not get travel on trains free until 9.30 which means that a hospital (or any other kind of) appointment in the centre of town any time before 11.00 am costs the same as it costs anybody else. To do that journey by bus/tube may involve several changes and be twice as long - and may well require standing up all the way. That said, I'm very grateful for the ability to get on a crowded stuffy tube or bus without paying at any time of the day. But I do at the same time know plenty of people outside of London who would rather die than use this free transport. As for train subsidies, as far as I know they're already in place, and yes I must be in receipt of them myself.

It's not a race to the bottom, but where I am, you have to be 66 to get free travel (buses only, not trains) and that also only applies to after the rush hour. I think that if you take a hospital appointment letter you can use the pass earlier, but as I have a while to go before getting mine, I'm not 100% sure.

Yes, there are those who look down on public transport. I don't know what can be done about that, other than to make car use less convenient, but that shouldn't stop public transport being subsidised or free, and if it were made clean, reliable and safe it might encourage more people to use it, even without disincentives to drive.

Doodledog - most supermarkets do home deliveries at an affordable price. Certainly cheaper than £16 each round trip.
Also cycling is encouraged around my area for those who can.
Are councils providing homes miles away from amenities? In any event children can go to locally run activities such as cubs, brownies, guides and scouts. There will be other local groups for sports and other exercise? Jogging is free.
Not too sure about anyone resenting tv ownership? Are you serious?

fancythat

People complain about HS2. A lot.

Think I am a bit confused by this thread.

For me andd people living rural, it is miles of car journey before even getting to a train station.

We’re a railway family. HS2 isn’t about just cutting a few minutes off rail journeys. As with many other things in this country a lot of the infrastructure is still Victorian. It isn’t possible to upgrade the current tracks whilst still allowing them to be used. We need to get more haulage onto the railways. People should be able to afford to travel by train. I’m pretty sure they can in other parts of Europe and the world. Years ago we travelled round Europe by train and felt ashamed when we got back to the UK by how archaic our rail network was.

GoldenAge

Just a slight correction to the idea that in London people over 60 get travel free. They do not get travel on trains free until 9.30 which means that a hospital (or any other kind of) appointment in the centre of town any time before 11.00 am costs the same as it costs anybody else. To do that journey by bus/tube may involve several changes and be twice as long - and may well require standing up all the way. That said, I'm very grateful for the ability to get on a crowded stuffy tube or bus without paying at any time of the day. But I do at the same time know plenty of people outside of London who would rather die than use this free transport. As for train subsidies, as far as I know they're already in place, and yes I must be in receipt of them myself.

That said, I'm very grateful for the ability to get on a crowded stuffy tube or bus without paying at any time of the day

During Lockdown it was changed to 09.00 the earliest on weekdays and all day at weekends for tubes and buses - so far that still stands.

And for those complaining about London - lots of other cities have widespread free travel for the Over 60s e.g. on Merseyside they can also use the river ferries!

Not too sure about anyone resenting tv ownership? Are you serious?

Yes. TVs, phones, 'done' nails, tattoos - all of these are things that many posters have complained about people spending money on if they are hard-up.

ronib Not too sure about anyone resenting tv ownership? Are you serious?

I believe there've been references to owning new smart tv - apart from old reliable, less stylish tv. Making do with old or buying trendy?

We fall in with not purchasing new when old still works.

The Gravesend/Tilbury ferry is free for over-60s but I don't know about the Woolwich ferry or any of those on the non-tidal Thames.

MacCavity2

All public transport free in Luxembourg.

Did not know that. Well done Luxembourg.

Just booked a train from Newcastle Whitby direct for £12.60 total return for my husband and I in August. He has mobility problems due to dementia so has a disabled persons railcard which entitles him and whoever is helping him to a third off but I was shocked and pleased at the price and won’t mind it stopping at all 26 stations on the way! I usually hire a car at the airport but that would have cost over £250 pound for the week and then parking on top plus once there we wouldn’t use it. Bonus is I can read or sightsee on the way.

I live 12 miles from central Manchester. Our town doesn’t have the metro, sadly. People going to work/hospital appointments will struggle to get on the train, in rush hour, not enough carriages.
Buses in Manchester are £1. Here, it’s £3 to go 3 miles into town for the train.

Public transport is dreadful. It fuels the opposition to hs2- we can’t get across the Penine to Leeds, 10 mins off a speedy trip to London irrelevant. That’s if we can get a seat to London, increasingly difficult and at eye watering costs

Of course public transport should be subsidised and improved. The village next to mine has two buses a day, last one 5pm

@goldenage where I live (reasonably large market town of 12,000 or so residents) if I get a “local” hospital appointment for say Wednesday afternoon it not only costs me £12.00 on the currently busses (3 busses each way) but I have to set off on Tuesday morning. If the appointment finishes after 3.00pm I can’t get a bus home until 3.15pm on Thursday.
@ronib the reasonably sized, well established village nearest to our town (maybe 8,000 residents) has a bus here twice a week. They have no cubs, scouts, youth clubs or anything else after school for children and young people.
Our town has cubs, brownies, scouts and some sports clubs etc- but only one of each. They are over subscribed with a waiting list. You have to enrol your child virtually at birth to have a possibility of a place and one of the criteria is living within walking distance.

Dizzyribs do the local schools offer after school activities?

We are told that this country is one of the richest in the world but none of the parties have come up with a plan for cheap ticket prices or how to improve the railway infrastructure. So yes to subsidies but it’s not going happen anytime soon

I am partially sighted and struggle to find connections at large stations and with ticket machines at unmanned ones. I would be willing to pay more in taxes to get greater subsidies for Rail and Bus travel, even though, as a Pensioner, I have a free Bus Pass (Off Peak travel) and I buy a Senior Rail Card. I live alone, and have a limited income.

If anyone's interested, the RMT union has published a report which shows that the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) reinvest just 1% of their profits in the railways and 65% goes to shareholders as dividend.

It looks to me as though we're already providing much of our railways' funding with little benefit to the Treasury or rail customers.

www.rmt.org.uk/news/rail-companies-raking-in-profit-and-stripping-the-railways-of/

The report is presented in a strange format. It's best downloaded and read as a pdf.

Disclaimer. The report is anonymous so we have no idea who has researched and wrote it (unlike the report I linked to earlier on this thread). I cannot vouch for its accuracy and many might claim that it has manipulated facts to enhance the RMT's case.

Seamus89

I know of several couples who have moved back into central London in their 70's due to the plentiful and efficient supply of free public transport and better provision of NHS care, not to mention the arts and leisure facilities that are now available to them.
Yes , they were lucky to be able to downsize to afford a 2 bed apartment but my goodness their lifestyle now is amazing. Levelling up to provide the same transport structures in all large cities would certainly help everybody , workers and retirees , it could also release some larger homes for families.

Some old friends moved back to London several years ago. As they are now well into their 70s they get the free travel - not just on tubes and buses but also on some rail lines, such as the London Line.

Their local hospitals are Moorfields and UCL, both teaching hospitals, so they get good access to NHS services.