What is a lesbian?

Glorianny

Rosie51

Glorianny

Hang on! Wasn't there a lot of support for a man at a Pride rally who sported a T-shirt and hat that advertised an anti-trans organisation? Is that different? His views didn't match he organisers.
And earlier on this thread an advert which asked for transpeople and their allies t attend was loudly condemned (although it didn't ban anyone)
So the concept is anyone can attend any meeting as long as their ideas match yours?

The LGBAlliance are not an anti-trans organisation if that's the man you mean, they're a pro LGB organisation. If being pro women, or supporting the sexuality of being LG or B is anti-trans then surely that trans pride march was anti-women and anti LGB as it was only celebrating and promoting the T? Being homosexual or bisexual are sexual orientations, the umbrella of trans covers transgender and a whole lot more including trans species and trans age.

The LGB Alliance has been described as a hate group by Pride in London, Pride in Surrey, the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats, the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights, the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain, barrister Jolyon Maugham, Green Party of England and Wales co-leader Carla Denyer, journalist Owen Jones and Natacha Kennedy, co-chair of the Feminist Gender Equality Network. Broadcaster India Willoughby has described the group as "baddies masquerading as the good guys." The group has also been described as "anti-trans" by the Trades Union Congress and Hope not Hate. Paul Roberts OBE, CEO of LGBT Consortium said of LGB Alliance "they exist to oppose free, safe and empowered trans lives"

Oh my goodness, you've some real charmers in that list! Shall we start with India Willoughby who tweeted that we should put barbed wire in the sea to puncture the rafts bringing 'illegal immigrants' to our shores, and insists that India possess a cervix and their chromosomes are now female and 'she's' more of a woman than most natal women. Or perhaps Owen Jones who displays his misogyny with every breath? Jolyon Maugham who's making a nice earner out of crowdfunded cases against 'anti-trans' organisations and has lost every single one?
If Stonewall hadn't sold out on LGB people the LGBalliance would never have been formed.

You didn't address why it's OK just to have just a transgender pride march?

twitter.com/i/status/1653038309155676160

I know you prefer linked evidence Glorianny so here's your
Broadcaster India Willoughby has described the group as "baddies masquerading as the good guys." respected broadcaster.

India Willoughby's statements about lesbians are breathtaking, pretty much holds every prejudice in the book oh and he has hilarious views about women, like something out of Benny Hill. The LGB alliance has just won their court case which challenged their charitable status, (what a blinder Mermaids played with that move) so unless charitable status is now routinely granted to hate groups I think perhaps those individuals may be wrong. If I was LGB Alliance I would be taking legal action against those who used that terms. They tend to do quite well legally.

Galaxy have you heard anything up to date about the investigation into Mermaids? The one triggered because they decided to target LGB Alliance 🤣

Of course I don't agree with all of those people Rosie51 but you haven't posted a single bit of evidence to show that the LGB alliance is what you say it is.
As for Owen Jones well he's a gay man so perhaps he's allowed an opinion on trans and gay issues. Certainly he's more qualified than me (or I suspect you) to decide who speaks for gay men.
At the end of the day they do not support trans issues so why attend a march organised by people who do?

Let's see what we have learned today
Transwomen should not attend lesbian events
But
Anti-trans men can attend Pride marches where transpeople are marching.
and
Transmarches should invite anti-trans and transphobic people.

Funny sort of world isn't it?

I have learnt that a charity which have just legally had their charitable status confirmed (after an interesting challenge by Mermaids which focussed some unfortunate attention on a pro paedophile member of their board) can be labelled a hate group. Funny world isnt it.

I've had a good chat from one of my fully reversed trans 'woman' - yes, I will call her a woman, because she has chosen to be one, and has become one, physically as well as sexually and emotionally. Whatever her genes say.

She told me that she does not transwomen like her who are lesbians and bi, and totally accepted as such by their community. I will trust her opinion- rather than the stilted prejudices of many.

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

Have you looked at stonewalls Twitter for example, have you seen the high profile lesbians and gay men raising concerns. Are these people full of stilted prejudice.

People like IW, OJ, FP’s fully transitioned and sexually functioning friends and posters who are ‘a little bit gay’ have opinions, just like everyone else.

They do not have divine understanding, and are no more representative of their particular group than I am of all womankind - why would they?

Its vaguely funny though, if you look at the people lecturing Martina navratilova for example, she mustn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Glorianny says

Anti-trans men can attend Pride marches where transpeople are marching.
and
Transmarches should invite anti-trans and transphobic people.

Who has said this on GN?

I’ve never said either of those things and I haven’t read anyone except Glorianny herself posting that.

Is she saying that she has unilaterally decided that these people speak for all of us?
Tut tut.

Galaxy

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

It doesn’t prove anything.

I don’t have a vast number of lesbian friends to ask, but those I do know resent the fact that TW are pushing them to accept males in any format, or. E called transphobic.
I haven’t spoken to them recently. Their feelings existed before the speed dating event. They also felt adding T to the acronym was wrong because of the behaviour of some TW and the violence of TRA.
NB, if IW really wants to be a “woman” he wouldn’t be so anti females and wouldn’t use statements like his barbed wire rant.
It seems he wants “women” to fit his rules, rather than him changing his male attitudes.

Sorry Molly have just realised you asked me a question. I havent heard anything about the Mermaids case but theses things tend to take a long time. The LGB alliance one felt like it went on for ever, and it must have obviously felt endless to those involved.

There is a huge difference between a dating event and a march. Marches always attract opposers - it goes with the territory, and people are rarely invited to attend - they just turn up.

A small, specialist event such as a local dating night is completely different, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. I clearly don’t share Glorianny’s habit of finding things like this ‘funny’ - I find the whole situation very depressing.

Galaxy

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

Nothing- I am not trying to 'prove' anything at all- apart that there is a massive difference between those who have chosen to give up their masculinity, including violence and control- and have gone through the pain of full reversal- who no longer have a penis, and now have breasts and a vagina- and men who are choosing to push their sexuality onto others, physically, sexually, emotionally, and possibly with violence and control.

Simple (yes, i know, it's not).

There is a massive difference between my husband and say Epstein but they both fall into the category of men. We dont segregate womens spaces on 'niceness'.

It isnt just about safety for me it's about the message it sends to women and especially girls about boundaries. Womens boundaries are not dependent on how men feel or what they have done to their body.

Galaxy it was me that asked the question about Mermaids. Thanks for confirming I haven't missed any reported developments. Yes the LGB alliance case did seem interminable to the bystander, goodness knows how the participants stood the tension for so long.

Glorianny Of course I don't agree with all of those people Rosie51 and yet you cited them all and even quoted India Willoughby to reinforce your argument that LGB alliance are a hate group. I don't tend to reference people nor especially quote people who have racist, obscene views like IW. But you do you.

Fleurpepper are you aware that the vast majority of transwomen do not undergo surgery of any kind? That you know 3 transwomen who have all undergone full surgical reassignment really is very unusual.

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

Nothing- I am not trying to 'prove' anything at all- apart that there is a massive difference between those who have chosen to give up their masculinity, including violence and control- and have gone through the pain of full reversal- who no longer have a penis, and now have breasts and a vagina- and men who are choosing to push their sexuality onto others, physically, sexually, emotionally, and possibly with violence and control.

Simple (yes, i know, it's not).

I agree, but do you have any suggestions on how we can achieve the women-only spaces that are required, that let in your lovely friends but keep out the others? A certificate listing what they have gone through and confirming that they have no intention of pushing anyone into anything, which must be shown before they are admitted?

I don't think that would be practical - and it certainly would not be acceptable or legal. It would be embarrassing for your unassuming friends (who are probably undistinguishable from untrans people anyway, and have been so for years) and ignored by the trans activists.

Doodledog

There is a huge difference between a dating event and a march. Marches always attract opposers - it goes with the territory, and people are rarely invited to attend - they just turn up.

A small, specialist event such as a local dating night is completely different, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. I clearly don’t share Glorianny’s habit of finding things like this ‘funny’ - I find the whole situation very depressing.

This is so. funny after earlier in the thread comparing a speed dating event with a children's party!!
Congratulations Doodledog the funniest thing on this thread!!
The situations aren't amusing it's the wriggling of the prejudiced which is hilarious.

I have no idea what is amusing you now, Glorianny.

If you can point us to the wriggling of the prejudiced, maybe someone can answer - as I keep saying, vague digs are impossible to answer, as we have no idea whether we agree with you or not.

Elegran

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

Nothing- I am not trying to 'prove' anything at all- apart that there is a massive difference between those who have chosen to give up their masculinity, including violence and control- and have gone through the pain of full reversal- who no longer have a penis, and now have breasts and a vagina- and men who are choosing to push their sexuality onto others, physically, sexually, emotionally, and possibly with violence and control.

Simple (yes, i know, it's not).

I agree, but do you have any suggestions on how we can achieve the women-only spaces that are required, that let in your lovely friends but keep out the others? A certificate listing what they have gone through and confirming that they have no intention of pushing anyone into anything, which must be shown before they are admitted?

I don't think that would be practical - and it certainly would not be acceptable or legal. It would be embarrassing for your unassuming friends (who are probably undistinguishable from untrans people anyway, and have been so for years) and ignored by the trans activists.

No, I have no idea, honestly - but I am glad you agree about the huge difference.

Rosie51- yes I am fully aware, thank you. I hope your comment does not imply that you don't believe me? I have a 4th friend who is trans- and has not been through reversal as she left it too late. Very kind, soft, gentle, feminine- only wears women's clothes to go out at night- and feminine trousers and accessories with discreet make-up for every day. S/he would not dream of imposing anything on anyone. We have never ever discussed her sexuality actually.

Doodledog

There is a huge difference between a dating event and a march. Marches always attract opposers - it goes with the territory, and people are rarely invited to attend - they just turn up.

A small, specialist event such as a local dating night is completely different, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. I clearly don’t share Glorianny’s habit of finding things like this ‘funny’ - I find the whole situation very depressing.

This was your comment on Wednesday Doodledog

Of course the organiser has a right to say which characteristics attendees should have. You don't organise a children's party and have to allow in teenagers, or a xylophone recital and expect trombonists

So on Wednesday speed dating can be compared to a children's party, But on Monday it can't be compared to a march

That's what is so funny!