What is a lesbian?

Fleurpepper no I definitely wasn't implying I don't believe you. I was just observing that your experience of fully surgically altered transwomen isn't the norm for most people and I expect it would naturally colour your opinions. It has been shown that many members of the public, on finding out a transwoman will likely still have a fully intact male body, change their mind about them accessing women's single sex spaces. And that's apart from the ones who think a transwoman is a female who wants to live as though she is a man. It really is a very confused area.

Thank you. It really is. I never ask questions, apart from the other day, about this thread, to one of them. I listen.

Yes, it is very confusing, so we shouldn't try and over-simplify.

The behaviour of those gate crashing a children’s party is as unacceptable as males gatecrashing a lesbian event.
I asked if you would accept uninvited people at your children’s party and you did one of your famous laugh and wiggle acts to avoid answering.
Now you’re using it as an excuse for supporting males gatecrashing lesbian events.
Your support of males is at least consistent, if surprising in a female.

Glorianny

Hang on! Wasn't there a lot of support for a man at a Pride rally who sported a T-shirt and hat that advertised an anti-trans organisation? Is that different? His views didn't match he organisers.
And earlier on this thread an advert which asked for transpeople and their allies t attend was loudly condemned (although it didn't ban anyone)
So the concept is anyone can attend any meeting as long as their ideas match yours?

A meeting specifically for dating is very different from a political meeting or a pride march.

The t-shirt and cap were of LGB Alliance which is not a hate group and should be something embraced by pride march organisers.

Glorianny

*Dodledog*The guidance of the Equality Act was updated in May2022, as always I abide by the law. So if it changes so do my views.

Can you give more information on that updating?
As far as I know, the Equality Act has not been changed.

The quote function isn’t working on my phone, but this reply is to Glorianny’s strange post about my hilarious comparison earlier.

Ah, I forgot your difficulties with analogies. It’s still not funny though.

Let me explain. A dating event and a children’s party are small scale events which are usually attended by a small number of people, and generally harmonious in nature. A march, on the other hand, can be made up of thousands of people, none of whom are invited, and can turn quite nasty. I was linking the dating event and the party, not the event or the party with the march, which would have been a very odd comparison, if not very funny. Is that clear enough?

It’s a good job you’re the only one laughing - that explanation would have killed an actual joke stone dead .

A Pride match isn't something which should ever turn "nasty". It's a celebration of differences The only reason it could do so is because people turn up who are intent on disrupting the celebration and condemning the LGBTQ+ community

The same thing you accuse the person who disrupted the lesbian event of doing.

So what you are saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with your approval.

So transphobics must be permitted to disrupt and trans people must simply put up with it.

The wriggling is getting embarrassing now.

You were wrong about what you thought I’d said. It happens. Just admit it and move on.

I said absolutely nothing about it being ok for anyone to disrupt anything (wasn’t it you who brought up protest as a good thing earlier?) so you’re wrong about that, too. Not your night, is it?

So what Glorianny is saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with her approval.

You always manage to get it just right Glorianny. A perfect description of what you keep saying.

I don' believe private events should be disrupted by anyone, but nor do I believe a celebration of inclusivity should be disrupted by someone who opposes inclusivity. That would include theos who oppose transrights like the LGB alliance, and those who believe in gay erasure or conversion therapy. None of thse people want to celebrate inclusion.
It is pathetic that the only way some can support their own ideas is by posting things I have never said.

But let's return to the original concept.
The organiser sadly tried to achieve something using unacceptable methods, which is why she has been called transphobic.
Had she merely asked for ,or arranged an event without transwomen she would have been legally entitled to. However in the course of doing this she used two images which are unacceptable to the transcommunity, one the person in lycra and the other an assault by a transwoman in the loo. (And yes I know they were both real). She used the worse stereotypes to justify her request, so indicating that this is how transwomen generally behave. It was transphobic to do so.

If you don't understand why, consider racism in the US southern states. Black men were consistently designated as raping or wanting to rape white women. Now a few might have done so, but using that as a characteristic of all black men was racist,because not all black men are rapists.
Using the image of a transwoman in lycra as a reason to ban all transwomen is transphobic

We don't permit the depiction of harmful stereotypes which damage minorities to be considered as typical of that minority, with other minorities. Why should it be permitted for transwomen? Sadly this women did so and so do many GNers.

Mollygo

So what Glorianny is saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with her approval.

You always manage to get it just right Glorianny. A perfect description of what you keep saying.

NO this is NOT at all what she is saying.

I haven't see GN's do what you've accused Glorianny. Time and time again, thread after thread, it's said when such examples are given, that these are in the minority.

I disagree that the image of a trans woman in lycra emphasising the wearers male genitalia was transphobic. The image showed how that particular trans woman presented themselves which in all probability, trans women would have found offensive.

The damage that such an image may do to the trans community is the responsibility of that individual.

The reason for not wanting trans women at a lesbian speed dating event is because they are not lesbians.

Some are.

No Fleurpepper, they're not.

There are quite a few lesbians in relationships with trans women with both identifying as lesbians.

It's often depicted on TV too because it is relatively common

Those women see each other as women and I don't think it is really right to try to force beliefs on them

We wouldn't allow Christians to tell lesbians they are going to hell so why would we allow anyone else to tell them they aren't lesbians when they have never had a relationship with a man... Only women or trans women

Obviously there are trans women couples as well

Lots of them happily share their stories on tiktok, if you simply type in trans lesbian couples you will meet some extraordinarily lovely people who are also, it had to be said, quite annoyingly beautiful and make me feel a bit plain

Fleurpepper, Glorianny is doing exactly what she accuses others of doing.

It is pathetic that the only way some can support their own ideas is by posting things I have never said.
Can you point us to where that has happened please? It is impossible to know whether we agree with you or not when you post in such a vague manner.

Here are 3 examples of couples I follow on tiktok

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians

A lesbian couple who openly state one of them is a trans woman

A couple who openly state they used to be heterosexual but one transitioned and now they are lesbians and happier than ever

Which to me shows 2 things

1. love is love

2. The T belongs with LGB

Also that there never needs to be a separation because in fact, many lesbians can and do date trans women and they remain lesbians attracted to femininity which, we are all entitled to present as and we are all entitled to be attracted to masculine appearing men or women or vice versa

You always have friends acquaintances and now people you follow on SM which supports whatever you want to say VS. This list is nothing new.

You have to ask yourself what they get out of parading their sexuality on social media.

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians.

As gay men, they were truthful. Since they remain male saying they are lesbians is yet another male lie.

They can say what they want, if it hurts nobody. I’m only interested when it means males forcing their requirements on females as in the OP.

Mollygo

You always have friends acquaintances and now people you follow on SM which supports whatever you want to say VS. This list is nothing new.

You have to ask yourself what they get out of parading their sexuality on social media.

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians.

As gay men, they were truthful. Since they remain male saying they are lesbians is yet another male lie.

They can say what they want, if it hurts nobody. I’m only interested when it means males forcing their requirements on females as in the OP.

That sounds very judgemental.
How is deciding to transition untruthful?

So if a male was disrupting the event it is actually nothing to do with transwomen. Which raises the point why use that as a reason to stop transwomen attending.

What we have learned so far
Gay men who transitioned are liars
Only natal women who have relationships with other natal women can be designated lesbians
Honestly believing in inclusivity is so much easier.
How many more restrictions on people are going to be necessary?

Given my own sexuality, it's not unusual that I am likely to meet these people throughout life really is it? Because of the places I have socialized or events I have attended

None of them care what you think, they are happy and while they do face bullying and discrimination, it only makes them more determined to live happy fulfilled lives and grateful they don't carry the burden of living in judgement over others

The organiser sadly tried to achieve something using unacceptable methods, which is why she has been called transphobic.
Had she merely asked for ,or arranged an event without transwomen she would have been legally entitled to. However in the course of doing this she used two images which are unacceptable to the transcommunity, one the person in lycra and the other an assault by a transwoman in the loo. (And yes I know they were both real). She used the worse stereotypes to justify her request, so indicating that this is how transwomen generally behave. It was transphobic to do so.
Can you point ut to those images please? The article in the OP tells us that the fact that these things had happened in the past had led her to point out that 'if you are not a woman you are not a lesbian', but I can see no images or references to images in the article - maybe you have read a different one, in which case it would be helpful to point to it, so that any information is available to all on the thread.

Sorry to be picky, but there are repeated cases of what appear to be blatant misinformation, twisting of people's words and false accusations on this thread (I apologise in advance if I am missing something) and it is important that we are talking about things that actually happened, not what you 'consider' to have happened.

Speaking of which - I note that there has been no link to the change in the EA either - was that another example of something that didn't happen? Telling us to Google it (the FOFO method so beloved of those who are talking about things they don't understand) is pointless if it didn't happen. If I asked people to google the Martians that have landed on Hampstead Heath (Analogy Alert - they haven't!!) then of course they wouldn't be able to find anything. That wouldn't mean that they were rubbish at basic research, or that I have a superior knowledge to them - it would mean that nothing is out there for them to find.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/2022-01-27

The above is rather turgid, but I would have thought that if the changes you report had happened they would be referenced here, but I can't find them. That may be my fault - I am still shaking off Covid - but as you are so well-versed in this particular aspect of the EA that you have quoted it many times on here, perhaps you could help me out (and the others who are unable to find it either)?

I'm aware that there are trans women identifying as lesbians VS but they aren't, and saying so isn't forcing a belief on them, it's a fact regardless of how they feel and/or what they claim.

Of course we are all entitled to be attracted to who ever we choose but that is not what's being discussed here. Lesbians are entitled to attend a speed dating event for lesbians with no trans women in attendance.

As Mollygo's posted, men in relationships with other men are gay, regardless of whether one of or both has trans gendered because they were, are and remain male.

Again Smileless that is not for you to say, you cannot speak for all lesbians and given the scientific evidence to the contrary and the existence of gender dysphoria... Your "facts" are just the ones you subscribe too which doesn't make you right on many levels