Whatever happened to 'ladylike'?

Cadenza
At my granddaughters school the girls wear the same uniform as the boys: trousers.
It saves a lot of arguments and tears.

Love that quotation Biglouis. It reminded me of two of my mother's:
"A woman's dress should be tight enough to show she is a woman but loose enough to show she is a lady".
"Skirts so short they are up to his expectations".
Sadly, a lot of woman believe that it empowers them because they are taking control of their bodies and using them as they want. When I see men strutting around half naked with transparent codpieces, I'll know semi-nakedness empowers. It really irritates me when I see newly elected young female MPs/CEOs etc
photographed lounging/leaning on a desk. Where are the men's photos like that?
Having said that, because I believe in freedom, I would defend on the barricades their right to dress as they please as long as I am afforded the same right.

Devorgilla

Love that quotation Biglouis. It reminded me of two of my mother's:
"A woman's dress should be tight enough to show she is a woman but loose enough to show she is a lady".
"Skirts so short they are up to his expectations".
Sadly, a lot of woman believe that it empowers them because they are taking control of their bodies and using them as they want. When I see men strutting around half naked with transparent codpieces, I'll know semi-nakedness empowers. It really irritates me when I see newly elected young female MPs/CEOs etc
photographed lounging/leaning on a desk. Where are the men's photos like that?
Having said that, because I believe in freedom, I would defend on the barricades their right to dress as they please as long as I am afforded the same right.

Sadly, a lot of woman believe that it empowers them because they are taking control of their bodies and using them as they want. When I see men strutting around half naked with transparent codpieces, I'll know semi-nakedness empowers.

I'm pleased to discover that I'm not alone in being cynical about this myth of women walking around half naked being 'empowering'.

When women who are overweight, women who've got sagging skin, cellulite, etc, can walk around without anyone making a comment - then I'll believe it's 'empowering'.

The only way women are empowered is when they have the same power as men. Young women striking the typical hand-on-hip pose, pouting sulkily and preening into the lens, are simply exhibiting the stereotype of 'sexually-available' femaleness.

Empowerment comes from what you are able to achieve - when societal rules don't prevent you from doing whatever it is you want to do. If posing half naked is what you want to do, then fair enough... but no man is ever going to challenge you over your 'right' to do that. Try to enter his domain and you will soon see the power imbalance.

Dickens, I agree with you. Women need to acquire the same sort of power men have. I believe a lot of it is based around ownership of land and property and means of earning a living. Men for centuries have set the bar high and what is really annoying them in modern times is that we can control our fertility and whether we decide to give birth or not. We are therefore more free to challenge and enter their world, and demand by right what they have. What's more we win that right - it is not given to us. I hate that expression - my husband allows me to do this, that or the next thing. I earned my money all my life and no one tells me how I will spend it once I have paid my whack into the house. I cannot believe the number of women who don't even have their name equally on the property. One of the best things my mother ever taught all her daughters was to look after ourselves first, last and always as men have done it for centuries and it hasn't done them any harm. Thanks Mum.

The latest abomination (to me) is what they apparently call ‘scrunch bum’ leggings. The first time I saw some - pink or flesh colour maybe 20 yards away - I honestly thought the girl had gone out with not just no trousers, but no knickers, either.

the ubiquity of porn is seen in much of this, esp the posing/pouting.
young girls think that is a sign of sophistication.

I agree that both sexes could act with a lot more decorum Dickens and therefore I try to set an example. Hasn't it always been the case that women have been set to a higher standard than men?

I try not to swear and draw the line at the f-word in public - if others want to use it that's their lookout. I use 'botheration', 'damnation', or 'what the Dickens' just to set myself apart from the rest of the heathens.

Many good comedians swear a lot on stage and that's their choice. I don't have to join in.

Devorgilla

Dickens, I agree with you. Women need to acquire the same sort of power men have. I believe a lot of it is based around ownership of land and property and means of earning a living. Men for centuries have set the bar high and what is really annoying them in modern times is that we can control our fertility and whether we decide to give birth or not. We are therefore more free to challenge and enter their world, and demand by right what they have. What's more we win that right - it is not given to us. I hate that expression - my husband allows me to do this, that or the next thing. I earned my money all my life and no one tells me how I will spend it once I have paid my whack into the house. I cannot believe the number of women who don't even have their name equally on the property. One of the best things my mother ever taught all her daughters was to look after ourselves first, last and always as men have done it for centuries and it hasn't done them any harm. Thanks Mum.

Well taught - your Mum!

I once worked with a rather fierce Scottish guy - older man with four daughters. I remember a young whippersnapper (male) in the office banging on about a "woman's place" in society. My Scottish colleague glared at him and said in his wonderful accent, Laddie, a woman's place is where ever she decides it is. I suspect his daughters appreciated their dad.

Of course, some men will go along with the myth of empowerment attached to women who pose half naked, sell sex and work in the porn industry... "they're exercising their freedom to choose" I was told by one irate male when I challenged him. As if men have ever tried to prevent women from selling their bodies!

Different story if women exercise their freedom to choose in the Board Room or in government though!

Of course, not all men are like that, thank goodness.

Witzend

The latest abomination (to me) is what they apparently call ‘scrunch bum’ leggings. The first time I saw some - pink or flesh colour maybe 20 yards away - I honestly thought the girl had gone out with not just no trousers, but no knickers, either.

Is that what they’re called?? I’ve noticed them over the past year or so and they leave almost nothing to the imagination. 😳. I saw a young girl, maybe 13/14yo at most, wearing pink ones today. She looked practically naked as she shopped in Aldi, with someone who presumably was her father.

Mind you, the semi-naked, sweaty man weaving his drunken way down the high street mid-afternoon was also a sight I’d have preferred not to have see.

Just chipping in here to say that I’m 83 and in my world I have never heard the word ‘ladylike’ used without irony.

The term ladylike has been debased and abused to the point where now it is seen as quaint and old fashioned at best and is often now used as an insult, with connotations that the woman who acts with decorum or grace (exhibiting a "ladylike" demenour) must be oppressed, subservient or a prude.

Funny how the word "gentleman" does not have the same connotations.

Mostly, what I have read on this post is women,slagging of other women, we really do ourselves no favours with these catty remarks. I saw this woman today wearing so and so. So what, they can wear what they like as can you.
I am sick and tired of women slating other women, today I have seen s men whose choice of attire was questionable, it did not trouble me, I went about my business.
Live and let live and let the young enjoy being young. Plenty of years for them to reflect and think perhaps that was a little to racy.

rafichagran
Thank you. It’s pretty bad isn’t it when they smell blood.

I keep remembering the barely bum covering mini dresses i wore in the 1960s. I couldn't bend down only gracefully(?) squat.

What goes around comes around.

MerylStreep

rafichagran
Thank you. It’s pretty bad isn’t it when they smell blood.

Good heavens, who smells of blood? That does sound pretty bad. And who are 'they'?

Ladylike lol!

If a pose is good enough for a man, why is it an issue for the opposite gender?

rafichagran

Mostly, what I have read on this post is women,slagging of other women, we really do ourselves no favours with these catty remarks. I saw this woman today wearing so and so. So what, they can wear what they like as can you.
I am sick and tired of women slating other women, today I have seen s men whose choice of attire was questionable, it did not trouble me, I went about my business.
Live and let live and let the young enjoy being young. Plenty of years for them to reflect and think perhaps that was a little to racy.

To anyone who thinks that Madonna's daughter looks lovely and is just expressing her freedom to be a woman and dress as she pleases - just remember she could be a role model for girls and young women.

Would you all want your granddaughters to go out dressed like that?

I don't.

What would you say if it was a man dressed in a similar fashion at a public event?
I wouldn't like to see that either.

Callistomom how Madonna's daughter dresses is up to her, just because you say she is a role model to other girls does not mean she has to conform, she has the right to her own desitions.
I would be very dissapointed if my daughter and young Grandaughter copied something like that, and did not have their own minds, I would not be dissapointed if they wore something others disapproved of so long as it was their choosing.
Part of being young is rebelling, and I would not want it any
other way. Live and let live.

Let's throw another unladylike picture into the discussion. This latest craze for actively showing off your baby bump is something I don't understand.

Chestnut

Let's throw another unladylike picture into the discussion. This latest craze for actively showing off your baby bump is something I don't understand.

Are those trousers made from black bin liners?
Is that the latest trend? Cheap and cheerful, I'm looking for a pattern now.

I’m laughing at these comments I work with young ladies full of tattoos and o nights out dresses quite low and short! But they are quite ladylike MOST of the time!

Why on earth not be proud of pregnancy?

My small grandson went out yesterday looking very similar to Madonna’s daughter. He’d drawn all over himself with a felt tip pen.

Mind you, he differed from Lourdes in that he had a cheery smiley face on and was happily waving to people who responded in kind.

Callistemon21, I'd save your time. Only the young can carry off bin bags.

Devorgilla

Callistemon21, I'd save your time. Only the young can carry off bin bags.

Damn, don't tell me I have to wear M&S just because I'm old!!