What is different now ?

luluaugust I think the problem is that whilst children (from being tiny) benefit from having choices they can be overwhelmed with too many.

Would you like to put your red shoes on or your wellies is enough!

luluaugust I do agree with you. I remember seeing my nephew and his wife, both highly qualified lawyers negotiating with their two year old about putting his shoes on and getting nowhere!
Deedaa your husband's family sounds like many I came across in my career.

My oldest grandson has been diagnosed with autism and ADHD.My youngest grandson has been diagnosed with Autism. The middle one is neurotypical. My husband had a lot of problems and once the boys were diagnosed it became obvious what his problems were. Back in the 50s of course he was just a naughty boy who was disruptive and wouldn't stop talking. He ended up in a very poor secondary modern school where he learnt very little. He was very good at science but the school only taught it for one year. Going further back his mother was really a text book autistic girl, who gave you the impression that she was always working from a guide book that told her how to deal with human beings. She was always thought to be a nice quiet girl who didn't cause problems. Both their lives would have been very different if their problems had been recognised and given a name.

I suppose this is slightly off track but it has interested me over the last 25 years or so how many people treat their small children as if they were adults, lots of choices asking their opinion etc this goes on until their mid to late teens when they suddenly start treating them as children imposing restrictions and checking where they are on their phones every five minutes. I find this quite odd.
My upbringing in the 50s just wouldn’t exist today. Don’t forget if dad was around he had probably been in the forces and discipline was a big thing.

We had NFF here. - 'Normal for Fife'. Also FLK - 'Funny looking kid'!

JaneJudge

MerylStreep the eye rolling has been my whole life with my dad. I remember when she was a few months old raising concerns about her and instead of listening to me professionals just wrote derogatory comments in her notes about my age!

JaneJudge
Not surprised 😥
In the 1980s my social worker friend was involved with the closing of psychiatric hospitals. NFN was written on a lot of notes. She had never come across this before.
When she asked what that meant, she was told Normal For Norfolk 😱 There was worse but it’s not printable.
Maybe it was common parlance in Norfolk?

My daughter is a SENCO, an interesting discussion to have with her when we next meet.

My dd not my dad!

MerylStreep the eye rolling has been my whole life with my dad. I remember when she was a few months old raising concerns about her and instead of listening to me professionals just wrote derogatory comments in her notes about my age!

My neighbours' GS has been diagnosed with autism and is currently sitting the entrance exams to read maths at Cambridge. I gather that there have been many famous mathematicians with autism - probably Isaac Newton himself.
The sad thing is that those "high-functioning" individuals may not enjoy the greatest benefit that this life affords to those of all levels of intelligence: the ability to make affectionate, supportive and respectful relationships with others. Perhaps they don't miss it.

FASCINATING!!

I had my boosters last night, hence the headache

I find this subject fascination and am enjoying reading your posts.

How true MaryDoll
11 years ago, after reading reams and reams of material we came to the conclusion that my grandson had sensory processing disorder.
There was no one to help us other than putting him on drugs.
We found a private clinic who diagnosed him.
Then we had to explain the condition to the SENS teacher who had never heard of it.
The worst part of that meeting was the reaction of his own teachers, she actually rolled her eyes when we were explaining what was happening to him in a class and how to help him. 😡

Go rest Marydoll bad heads are the pits
I totally agree it seems to be the coming together of so many changes in our lifestyles over the last 50 years and probably impossible to put the genie back in the bottle
Where do we go from here? So sad for our little people

Sorry for the typos.I am trying to do this on my phone and have a blinding headache!

It is not just all about lack of play, nor plastic in food nor deprivation. A number of parents I worked with suffered from alcohol and drug dependency.
There are so many other factors to factors to consider.
Not every child who has been diagnosed ADHD will be deprived or have a parent, who is a drug user.
I believe that there may be physical factors to consider in some children.
I often felt pupils with ADHD were demononised by teachers, who lacked the expertise and knowledge to support them. them.

BlueBelle

*If food and plastic played a part, wouldn’t the problems show earlier? Children seem to be getting diagnosed with conditions at a very young age (you see them online in high chairs apparently showing early signs of autism such as flapping and stimming). They can’t have eaten much or inhaled many chemicals by that age*
no but their mothers could have Doodlebug couldn’t toxins have been passed on whilst in the womb .
We grew up with no aerosols in the house, no fly sprays, hair sprays, no polishes just good old Johnson’s wax and and no plug ins, no food additives no aspartin in drinks, no poison pellets and sprays on the growing food oh there will be lists as long as my arm which surely must bring up huge question marks.
I think this may be where the answer lies

Absolutely BlueBelle
Micro plastics have been found in live people.

www.hull.ac.uk/work-with-us/more/media-centre/news/2022/scientists-discover-microplastics-in-deepest-section-of-the-lungs#:~:text=Laura%20Sadofsky%2C%20lead%20author%20on,lower%20parts%20of%20the%20lung.

I agree BlueBelle. All I recall in the way of cleaning products was Vim, Rinso (also used for washing up until Sqezy came along), Parazone bleach in the loo, blue bags for washing whites and wax furniture polish. No aerosols spreading chemicals through the air, and definitely no food additives or chemicals sprayed on the fruit and veg grown by Dad (Mum rarely needed to buy any). And the animals which provided our meat and milk weren’t pumped with antibiotics and other chemicals. And of course there were very few cars producing exhaust fumes. I’m not looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses but I do feel that chemicals ingested by babies in the womb and the sort of stimuli and information they are exposed to from an early age now have taken their toll,

I agrée Skydancer many children are cocooned from dawn until bedtime, no decision making, risk taking, friends made/fallen out with, using their imagination. Not all areas have cars causing danger, there are woods, parks, even streets that aren’t used for play as the children are ‘protected’.

Well being an only child and living on a main road I was not allowed out all day in the woods, like you skydancer in fact most of my childhood was in the garden, playing on my own
but I found it very easy to fit in at school and loved it
It’s got to be more to it than that

I ran the Nuture Unit in my school. The day began with taking turns to set the table for breakfast (most had no breakfast), learning how to socialise and all the niceties of eating in company.
This experience was totally alien to them, prior to entering the unit.

The four siblings I previously mentioned with ADHD, had play therapy. I recall watching the child who was eleven, happily playing with sand and water, in the way nursery school pupils did. He had missed out that whole stage in his develpment.

We had a play therapist to work with a fair number of pupils, what never experienced what we did with our own children.

Few children today experience playing out of doors - I don't just mean in a playpark under supervision. When I grew up in the 50s I was out all day messing about, climbing trees, walking through fields to get to conker trees, roller skating ... etc . Now (understandably) many parents are afraid to let their children do those things, largely because of the number of cars everywhere. Also vile content on the internet must surely be to blame for corrupting young minds.

If food and plastic played a part, wouldn’t the problems show earlier? Children seem to be getting diagnosed with conditions at a very young age (you see them online in high chairs apparently showing early signs of autism such as flapping and stimming). They can’t have eaten much or inhaled many chemicals by that age
no but their mothers could have Doodlebug couldn’t toxins have been passed on whilst in the womb .
We grew up with no aerosols in the house, no fly sprays, hair sprays, no polishes just good old Johnson’s wax and and no plug ins, no food additives no aspartin in drinks, no poison pellets and sprays on the growing food oh there will be lists as long as my arm which surely must bring up huge question marks.
I think this may be where the answer lies

I’m sure you’ve been much more than just good enough NotSpaghetti.