What is different now ?

Apparently unruly and aggressive pupils have become a problem in schools here,too since Covid in particular. It totally doesn’t surprise me because we were literally locked away for almost 2 years here in Victoria and the young ones really suffered as a result. They even closed the playgrounds for heaven’s sake. You were allowed to go to get food but only within 5 kms ( a couple of miles) . The teachers are tearing their hair out trying to cope.

When I was at school in the 60s, children who had issues were sent to the local special school. So they had no opportunity to go to mainstream. There was also a local mental institution which had a children's section and housed children who were 'different'. Children who were not academic left at 14 or 15 to work. And there were plenty of jobs for those who were good with their hands. There were plenty of children who had emotional disregulation or specific issues, they just weren't seen.

I’ve linked articles to this subject before, but here is another one.
The human race can’t keep ingesting micro plastics and expect nothing to happen.

www.foodpackagingforum.org/news/research-on-microplastics-a-changed-gut-microbiome-and-autism-spectrum-disorder

In our area there was a special school for children with physical difficulties speech etc. Children who were not good at reading writing etc were considered slow my brother was labelled slow. Children with learning difficulties were made to stand out from the rest of the class. It was a humiliating experience my brother often asked to stay off school. I don’t think my brothers written work ever improved.

Autism was not heard of until our children went to school some children usually boys were on medication for it. I don’t really think it was a subject many people knew about unless their child had autism. Now I hear all the time of GC with behavioural problems on a massive scale.

I believe you are what you eat eating convenience food on an every day basis cannot be good for anyone. Parents seem (only my observation when out) reluctant to discipline bad behaviour and reward it with sweets.
Children totally spoilt at home are going to school and the teachers have to take on their bad unchecked behaviour. I don’t necessarily think it’s on a particular spectrum it’s just bad behaviour.

It’s a very interesting article Merylstreep and rings some bells for us all to think more about this subject
I would think that the children most exposed to plastics of any kind would be China but I don’t think we d ever hear of any studies there and after that any of the more materialistic countries It would be very interesting to do studies on children from areas where there is less use of these commodities and see if there has been any increase in mental health problems in toddlers
So you don’t think there’s an increase just because there’s a different way of dealing with some children grandmabatty although that would certainly play a part I think it’s a bigger problem than that, if children of 2 to 4 are displaying mental health problems there has got to be something more that we are not recognising, surely

I don't know, but it seems to me that in the past, good discipline and respect for teachers went a long way. Behaviourwise there certainly were disruptive and difficult pupils, but they knew they risked being removed from class, so they tended to act up less. I went to school in France for a while, and there were "surveillants", mainly men, whose job was to pace the corridors, gather up the troublemakers and supervise the naughty kids in another room. The teachers were not responsible for anything other than teaching.

lack of hand-on father role models and discipline, also rubbish cheap food from shops like greggs, plus too many multiple vaccinations

The article about plastics is interesting, thank you MerylStreep, but weren't there the same issues surrounding the dangers of lead poisoning 50 years ago? Toxic heavy metals also affect the brain.

Any disruption was dealt with by a rap over the knuckles with a ruler at my school - do we really want to go back to that?

Not at all Luckygirl3, but there are other ways of disciplining the disruptive children so that the teacher doesn't have to depend a disproportionate amount of teaching time on behavioural management.

My first junior school was brand new in S London in the 50s and then a Victorian building one with 40+ per class in seaside Kent. i dont remember any very disruptive children at either, but it would be useful to be able to go back in time and look closely.

We had very strict teachers. We had a lot of freedom and very plain food. We went to bed at a set time. Very little if any television. A lot of energy was used up walking to and from school and playing outside in all weathers.
There could have been a lot of children with problems, but maybe they were kept home from school or went to "special schools". No child would have dreamed of throwing chairs or damaging school property.....or other children.
I agree there is a massive difference, but I am not 100% sure why.

There were various 'special' schools not just for those with learning disabilities where I lived. There were schools for 'maladjusted' children (whatever that meant!) as well as 'fragile' children. Also more children in local institutions which also had on site schools. Not sure what the implications are for schools today. Teachers certainly have their hands full coping with such a wide variety of capabilities and disabilities in one class along with those children with behaviour disturbance. A very difficult situation all round.

I attended the village primary school in the 1950s. There was one boy who was ‘slow’, but no disruptive children. Teachers were respected and children were taught respect and good manners as a matter of course. Toys were few and simple, playing outside was safe and not many families had a television; if they did, programmes were few and pretty wholesome. All the children in my village were from two-parent families, as is so often not the case today. We ate simple, seasonal food cooked from scratch and were not drowning in plastics or household chemicals. Life for so many children is very different today, with the lack of a father figure, being left to watch tv or play often violent video games for hours and eating far too much over-processed ‘convenience’ food. There has to be something in that change in the way of living which is contributing to the problems OP mentions.

Before anyone thinks I'm suggesting that all children with additional needs have not been nutured or poor parenting is to blame, I am definitely NOT saying that!
I am offering one piece of a very complex jigsaw.

I became very interested in working with children with special educational needs, due to the lack of expertise in my own school.
I taught in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland and the LA spent a lot of money supporting these children and their families. We did not have a large number of children on the autistic spectrum in my school, but did have an above average number of children diagnosed with ADDH and/ or behavioural difficulties.
In one family, the three boys and one girl had all been diagnosed with ADHD and had been prescribed Ritalin.

I recall listening to Sir Harry Burns, former Chief Medical Officer for Scotland, talking to staff in our local schools about the effects of deprivation on children's mental and physical health. He had conducted research on children aged about two in our area and the effects of lack of nuturing on their brain.
The scan results were spectacular. The differences in the brain development of disadvantaged children and those in the very well off areas of our LA were outstanding. I became fascinated by this and my thesis was based on the desire to learn more.
His conclusion was that lack of nuturing did play a considerable part in child development.

It was about ten years ago and I'm struggling to find the actual research.
I did find this video, where he touches on this.
youtu.be/q_LrL1Hsum0?feature=shared

ideas.repec.org/h/elg/eechap/17625_4.html

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/letters/harry-burns-properly-functioning-families-are-the-key-to-making-scotland-healthier-2443066

Things were pretty brutal when I was young. You had the post war trauma for a start and many people would thrash their children for very small acts of disobedience.An autistic child would probably have a very rough time of it then because they were just regarded as disobedient, needing to be ‘licked’ into shape. Thank goodness most of us ( by no means all ) have moved on from those attitudes.

I do often wonder about all the household chemicals used nowadays - people so obsessed with uber-hygiene who are constantly spraying surfaces with germ-killers, not to mention aerosol air fresheners and those plug-in smelly things, etc.

I do wonder what some hygiene-obsessed pregnant women may be inhaling, or perhaps absorbing through their diet (uber processed foods) or even through their skin.

But 60 years ago far more pregnant mothers were smoking with equally harmful consequences.
Something else always seems to come along to take the place.

Thanks for the article Marydoll, an interesting and illuminating article. I am sure that is at least at the heart of this issue. My daughter is a teacher (secondary) and has said that behaviour has deteriorated such a lot since lockdown. Parents also intervene a lot more than I feel they should, kids do need to learn some resilience. I don’t mean bullying of course, but many try to dictate an almost individual educational experience for their child, that’s the other end of the spectrum. My daughter teaches 150 odd kids every week, it’s impossible to keep up with the changing pronouns of confused children and the latest crazes affecting them. I feel sad for the current generation. Incidentally, I met the current editor of the Scotsman on a juice retreat last week. A really nice man!

A huge increase in these problems
........ or is there? We all recognize now that ADHD, autism etc is now acknowledged, whereas when I was a child they were naughty , disruptive children - having said that I don't remember any child being completely out of control and displaying a complete lack of respect for teachers. So I am inclined to believe that there is a massive increase in childhood issues. Like so many families ours has not escaped it! The mental health of children is at an all time low and we must question why. Is it because children are now told about everything, they are taught in school about things I learnt as I grew and matured mentally and physically. In other words a gradual awareness of life and it's complexities. I recognize that children need to be aware of abuse etc , but are we force feeding these subjects when our children are too young to deal with that knowledge? At the risk of being accused of being Mary Whitehouse are our children seeing , reading , and being taught too much too soon? We go to great lengths to protect our children from physical harm but do we do the same to protect their mental health? The minds of young children are immature and easily damaged is it all too much too soon? I also think children lead such busy lives now , so many out of school activities, parents rushing children into breakfast clubs so they can rush to work, many children have very full days - breakfast club, full school day , care after school till parents can pick them up after work and lots of activities
after school - children and parents must be exhausted!!!
Of course I know each generation is different but my childhood was school, Mum always there at home time, time to play outside , Sunday School, Brownies and Guides , that was it! We can't go back to that I know, but it is time to review how and why children are having so many problems.

Thank you, Nanatoone. I actually know Harry Burns and his wife, his nephews were my friends of my children.
I have great admiration for his work.

I think it’s more than likely Mary-doll and merylstreeps ideas, plus other combinations
I don’t really buy the no father figure (it may contribute in some cases) but like many on here I was a single mum my children had a dad that left and was not in the least interested in them or my financial situation they had no father figure but they have all had good school lives grew up to have good careers and are fantastic parents themselves

Food and additives I think may play a big part, and the plastic particles and other things like heavy use of aerosols in the home, parents drug or cannabis use around children
I think it’s a huge area to debate and needs a whole lot of scientific work Surely we cannot accept having 2 year olds with mental health and anxiety problems
Although Covid and lockdown didn’t help this was a growing problem long before then
It seems to me the more sophisticated our lives become the more we are killing ourselves
It would be very interesting to do a survey in countries or tribes where they do not have a ‘modern’ life I bet the kids are like we were

It saddens me to see the 2 parent family/absentee father being dropped in to the equation. So I’m going to speak up for single parents who successfully raise lovely well adjusted children without a man under the roof. I’m proud to be one of them.

The father of my children has been completely absent from their lives since they were a toddler and small baby. They both have grown into lovely adults with very successful careers and I couldn’t be prouder of them.

From what I’ve read the multiple vaccinations theory has been discounted as a cause for autism. I can’t comment on the Greggs type food mentioned but if they read this thread maybe they’d like to comment !

I agree it’s a concerning problem with no easy answer. I was recently at a concert my grandson’s junior school . Children were seated in rows on the floor and from where I was sitting I counted at least 6 children who left their position and wandered across to the teachers sitting around the perimeter and caused disruption. My heart went out to them and their parents and grandparents in the audience. Teachers have a very difficult job.

I was also a single mother after my husband left, and my son refused contact with his father. He has done extremely well. I think there is a big difference between the situations we were in, BlueBelle, and families where a father has never been present.

"Difficult" or slow children were in special schools when I was young. That is why they did not appear in my classroom.

Are special schools a good idea? - I think there are arguments on both sides.