Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

Rosie51 and Galaxy make the point made often in these discussions,
Men are more violent, they’re violent to other men, to women, to trans women and I’m certain to trans men.

You made the point while I was typing Galaxy.

Young attractive men and those with learning difficulties or physical weakness are at risk of rape in male prisons, so should they also be accommodated in female prisons? Or should more be done to ensure that nobody has to suffer rape or violence in prison? Loss of liberty is the punishment, not loss of safety.

Many men have a terrible time in Male prisons, women are not human shields for these men. In terms of prison the advice from many in the prison service at the time was that housing men in the female estate was an absolute disastrous idea but the TWAW mantra overrode that.

For those offended by a meme (Glorianny and VS) , here's the sentiment without an accompanying picture.

If somebody's secondary sex characteristics do not define their gender, how does chemically or surgically altering these same characteristics affirm it.

Rather low blows from VS and Glorianny but sadly not a surprise.

I've just read Molly's post, and realise that you might be suggesting that transwomen are more at risk if segregated by sex. This is what happens when the language is mangled - I thought you meant women.

As Molly says, though - women are at risk in prison if incarcerated with male-bodied rapists/sex offenders. Of course they are. Transwomen threatening suicide is not a reason for putting women at risk. Threats of suicide are often emotional blackmail, and I believe that figures show that those who threaten suicide are less likely to follow through than those who take their lives without threatening to do so. In any case, the prison system should not be held to ransom by threats.

I agree that transwomen are likely to have a hard time in a male prison, and am tempted to say that this should discourage them from raping women, but that wouldn't be in the spirit of fairness, so what I will say is that when weighed against the risk to women, the rights of male rapists should come second. An alien concept to you, I realise, but there are times when even intersectional feminists must realise that something is objectively true and that men should not always come first?

VioletSky

glorianny my absolute favorites are:

"Are you saying that [insert absolute nonsense that I have never said]"

"You are the one who always says to be kind etc" when I am always polite to polite people... But am somehow expected to act as a human punchbag for others unresolved issues and just sit here and take it lol

I don't know how people hold their heads up sometimes and don't realize how they come across to others... Someone should be telling them otherwise personal growth cannot happen and goodness knows the world is a terrible enough place as it is

Also Just watched Doctor Who, wonderful trans actress, loved it.. progress continues as always

Who is using you as a human punchbag, VS? Can you give an example, please?

Also, could you be more specific about who shouldn't, in your opinion, hold their heads up, and who should be told about personal growth etc (and by whom)? When you are so vague it is difficult to know whether to agree or not.

I'm not a Dr Who fan, but I wouldn't see someone's trans status as relevant, any more than their colour. If they can act, great, if they can't, not great. Liking something because of the so-called 'gender' of an actor is strange and a bit patronising, IMO, but to use your phrase, 'you do you'.

I have read the whole thread, Glorianny. Some posts are very vague, and allude to things rather than stating them, however (I ask for clarification in these cases, but it is rarely forthcoming) but I am otherwise capable of following, even if I glaze over at times because of reading the same script for the hundredth time.

I fail to see how segregating by sex is 'plain ridiculous', however, or how it places women at higher risk.

It disturbs me that some people think sending transwomen to male prisons where they are undoubtedly more at risk of rape and abuse (not to mention suicide) is acceptable.
That disturbs me that anyone anywhere is at risk of rape and abuse (not to mention suicide)
but I find it equally disturbing that people are happy to send trans women to female prisons, where female prisoners are at risk of rape and abuse by males who have been imprisoned for exactly that crime.
If we’re talking about Separate areas for transwomen prisoners, then, why shouldn’t they be in male prisons, especially when they have been imprisoned for crimes of rape and violence towards women or towards anybody actually?
They would be as safe in separate areas there as they would be in separate areas in female prisons and the other female inmates would not be at risk from them.
How do you justify this urge to protect males and put them in places which would put females at risk?

Galaxy

Sport and prisons are very much returning thankfully to being segregated by sex no matter how ridiculous you find the legislation allowing for this.

No one has said legislation separating prisoners is wrong. We have said that transwomen need to be accommodated and putting them in male prisons led to suicides.
It disturbs me that some people think sending transwomen to male prisons where they are undoubtedly more at risk of rape and abuse (not to mention suicide) is acceptable.

As for sport it is still an area where women are treated badly. Caster Semenya won her case of discrimination at the European court.
These words should upset anyone who supports women
As Human Rights Watch and experts argued in an amicus brief submitted to the European court, the 2019 regulations perpetuate the arbitrary scrutiny of women’s bodies in ways that are degrading and invasive of privacy, on grounds that are scientifically contested. Such regulations are incompatible with respect for women’s rights to bodily integrity, freedom from cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, dignity, and non-discrimination.

That is at the heart of the matter.

International sporting bodies set regulations with scant regard for international human rights norms, as if they are exempt from human rights standards. The European court decision debunks that, finding that the Swiss Federal Tribunal had ‘failed’ to uphold human rights norms despite ‘credible claims of discrimination’.

No not very cult like... we don't lie about what others think or feel or their motivations and we definitely do not blame any group (including women) for the actions or words of a few...

Now, these threads show all the earmarks of a cult:

When facts are proven wrong it is not acknowledged

Propaganda is shared in the form of memes and other quotes

You must agree with everything stated or you are not acceptable.. (this coming from someone who agrees on quite a few issues)

Solutions to issues aren't sought or wanted

Nothing ever changes... No new ideas are ever introduced, no changes to the mantra, just pure blind repetition and a determination to search for new excuses to say it, facts be damned

I know you don't like it but it is what it is.. The way you all feel about me stopped mattering to me a while ago now... Here or any other thread people here can't be objective on

Yes that doesnt sound at all like a cult or a religion at the very least. It's probably why my atheist self rebels so much against it

VS🤣🤣🤣

Sometimes they just don't know it until they read these sorts of threads

Galaxy

Can I be really clear that how I appear to you VS is not in my priority list.
I also have no idea how people hold their heads up when they make really unpleasant generalised comments.

That's fine Galaxy

I think as humans we are far too different to have it worry us

But I am not trying to get a rise or a reaction... Just stating the truth...

Intersectional feminists work hard for equality for everyone to live in a fair and safe society and the "others" I was referring to are the ones who belong with us

I cannot improve on what DoodleDog and Smileless2012 have just put.
This
^ What's so sad is until all this nonsense and unpleasantness started, we were living quite happily with trans people and they were able to live their lives in peace.^
is true, even though Glorianny et al won’t admit that the violence perpetrated by some TW and fans is at the root of the harm to women and those trans, mainly TW, who were living peacefully and unobtrusively.
This behaviour of some TW and fans and the person mentioned in the OP, also clearly reflects the disrespect with which they regard the sex that they claim they want to be.
But clearly that behaviour and disrespect is acceptable to those on here who refuse to condemn it.

Sport and prisons are very much returning thankfully to being segregated by sex no matter how ridiculous you find the legislation allowing for this.

Can I be really clear that how I appear to you VS is not in my priority list.
I also have no idea how people hold their heads up when they make really unpleasant generalised comments.

Doodledog

*The amount of misinformation spread also astounds me. But I do notice that those who claim to care so much have no response whatsoever to the level of violence suffered by transpeople.*
Can you be a bit clear about what you mean by this please? It is impossible to know whether to agree or not when you are being so vague. What misinformation, and who exactly are you accusing of 'claiming to care'? How have people (specified would be good, please) failed to respond - I assume that it is taken as read that all violence is bad, and that nobody condones it. Where there is something that can be done to minimise the level of violence (eg stop men in female spaces) then people suggest it. I'm not sure how anyone on here can suggest ways of minimising violence suffered by transpeople though. Unless posters perpetrate it themselves, which I doubt, there is not a lot any of us can do, and transpeople are already protected by law, which is your usual response when women complain about the risk from having men in prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, DV hostels etc.

The concept of people using facilities which align with their natal sex is plain ridiculous and offers no protection at all to women, it actually exposes them to more dangers.
How? How on earth does segregating by sex rather than so-called 'gender' expose women to more dangers?

Of course transpeople are among us. We know that, and the vast majority of those who comment don't mind in the least. What we do mind is the way in which women are being pushed aside in all sorts of oft-repeated ways in order to accommodate them, and the way in which children are enabled to make changes to their bodies that could ruin their lives.

Try reading the whole thread Doodledogall your questions will be answered there. No point in going over and over the same ground.
There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

glorianny my absolute favorites are:

"Are you saying that [insert absolute nonsense that I have never said]"

"You are the one who always says to be kind etc" when I am always polite to polite people... But am somehow expected to act as a human punchbag for others unresolved issues and just sit here and take it lol

I don't know how people hold their heads up sometimes and don't realize how they come across to others... Someone should be telling them otherwise personal growth cannot happen and goodness knows the world is a terrible enough place as it is

Also Just watched Doctor Who, wonderful trans actress, loved it.. progress continues as always

Who said they regard the meme as serious? You realise how discussions have sunk when posters are accused of saying things they haven't said, which is a constant factor on these threads.

You're right of course that trans people are among us, on trains and at the cinema. They have been for some time but only recently are trans women wanting to compete against women in sport. Avail themselves of women's facilities in some cases with their male appendage clearly present and visible.

Only recently have women been referred too as 'people who bleed', 'breast feeders' and 'people with a cervix' etc. Only recently has a trans woman whose open hostility to so called TERFS is evident, been given a position in a charity that offers help and support to endometriosis sufferers.

It is not, as is abundantly clear on this thread and in all discussions here on GN, a desire to see trans people disappear. It is simply a desire not to have the words women and woman eradicated. A desire for women to be able to compete against other women in sports. A desire for women not to be put at risk in prisons, refuges and other spaces designated for women, either physically or psychologically by the presence of men.

And no, we are not just going to have to learn to live with the TRA's and their supporters. They are going to have to learn to live with and respect women.

What's so sad is until all this nonsense and unpleasantness started, we were living quite happily with trans people and they were able to live their lives in peace.

Oh, and memes are often satirical, which is not the same as being 'jokes'. There is a big difference. I don't understand your sense of humour, as you are fond of saying that serious things are 'funny', but it is important that we use the right words to describe concepts. Satire pokes fun at serious matters, and absolutely can be profound and have serious meanings. That is the point of it.

The amount of misinformation spread also astounds me. But I do notice that those who claim to care so much have no response whatsoever to the level of violence suffered by transpeople.
Can you be a bit clear about what you mean by this please? It is impossible to know whether to agree or not when you are being so vague. What misinformation, and who exactly are you accusing of 'claiming to care'? How have people (specified would be good, please) failed to respond - I assume that it is taken as read that all violence is bad, and that nobody condones it. Where there is something that can be done to minimise the level of violence (eg stop men in female spaces) then people suggest it. I'm not sure how anyone on here can suggest ways of minimising violence suffered by transpeople though. Unless posters perpetrate it themselves, which I doubt, there is not a lot any of us can do, and transpeople are already protected by law, which is your usual response when women complain about the risk from having men in prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, DV hostels etc.

The concept of people using facilities which align with their natal sex is plain ridiculous and offers no protection at all to women, it actually exposes them to more dangers.
How? How on earth does segregating by sex rather than so-called 'gender' expose women to more dangers?

Of course transpeople are among us. We know that, and the vast majority of those who comment don't mind in the least. What we do mind is the way in which women are being pushed aside in all sorts of oft-repeated ways in order to accommodate them, and the way in which children are enabled to make changes to their bodies that could ruin their lives.

When discussions start to regard memes as serious you realise how low they have sunk. Memes are jokes. They are not profound nor do they have deep meanings.
The amount of misinformation spread also astounds me. But I do notice that those who claim to care so much have no response whatsoever to the level of violence suffered by transpeople.
Male violence will not be solved by segregating transpeople. The concept of people using facilities which align with their natal sex is plain ridiculous and offers no protection at all to women, it actually exposes them to more dangers.
But the whole thing is irrelevant. Transpeople are among us. They are sitting beside you on the train, or at the cinema. They are using the facilities which match their appearance. They are not going to disappear. No one is going to have their cells analysed or chromosomes examined to find out what sex they are. You are just going to have to learn to live with them.

Brilliant meme Rosie.

Those social and moral issues will be resolved elsewhere in such a way that everyone can live with all their rights and dignity intact
That would be lovely. Any idea how that might come to pass, when women don’t have private places where they can preserve their dignity?

Well, everyone who has any dignity anyway
Maybe you can expand on that a bit? Is it one of the personal digs you claim not to make? It does come across that way, but you say that you are always kind and don’t make personal comments.