Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

So the concept now is that unless all black people think something is racist it can't possible be?

No. The concept is that your saying that because some people of colour say something is racist, that it must be, and my saying that this is nonsense, as not all POC think alike. Not the same thing at all.

I don't think that's how it works.
Well nor do I, which is why I didn't say anything of the kind.

I think there's a lot of whatabooutery going on in a desperate effort to support the unsupportable.
Can you point to the whataboutery, please? And the desperate attempt? Oh, and the insupportable too, would be good.

Black women think sport is racist. They have a right to think that and have their views respected.
The ones who think it have every right to do so, and to have their views respected (but not necessarily agreed with), as do the ones who don't. Again, I never said otherwise.

And are you suggesting that all black women think sport is racist, or that because some do it must be? Again, your post is ambiguous, so it would be helpful if you could clarify, please?

Smileless2012

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

It's like plaiting fog, isn't it?

DoodleDog

Smileless2012
You really are the gift that keeps on giving Doodledog

Smileless2012

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

It's like plaiting fog, isn't it?
Or knitting jelly.
She hears what she wants to hear and ignores the truth that TW are male, whether they are POC or white, young or old.

I want to know when women, you know those blessed with female sex biology, will be listened to. Our arguments about not having males in our sports, toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards .........just ignore or abuse them, it's so depressing, and even if our black sisters should push their way to the front of the protest, you just know they'll be "the wrong kind of black women"
Black women (mostly males) that support male inclusion.... they're hunky dory 🙄🙄🙄 and given first place inclusion.

Catching up again. Thanks to all the posters who haven’t given up trying to tell it like it is. On a more positive note, Glorianny is in a tiny minority. One that needs to be in opposition to main stream ordinary views on life.

218

218?

Iam64

Catching up again. Thanks to all the posters who haven’t given up trying to tell it like it is. On a more positive note, Glorianny is in a tiny minority. One that needs to be in opposition to main stream ordinary views on life.

Thank God for minorities! They brought us equality in voting. They brought us human rights. They recognise that no matter how small the numbers of people are in any section of the community they deserve to be treated equally. They support those who would be overwhelmed, silenced, and sometimes even eliminated, by majorities.

Ah, room for 218 more posts?

Unless some utter spanner comes along with 217 one-word posts, that is. That often happens when someone is losing an argument.

Doodledog

Ah, room for 218 more posts?

Unless some utter spanner comes along with 217 one-word posts, that is. That often happens when someone is losing an argument.

Or 3 number posts????
If the reference is supposed to me, losing an argument on GN just makes me realise how little some people really believe in equality and how superficial their commitment to achieving it is.
I doubt I've ever posted a one word post!

I've never believed that the majority of voices or the loudest voices are necessarily right. I examine my own conscience to see if my views are consistent with my beliefs in human rights and equality. And in the case of these threads I am always certain that they are. Discrimination is never right no matter how many people support it.

No, I wasn't referring to you. Why would I be if you haven't ever closed down a thread in that manner? It does happen though, and I agree that it is testament to superficiality of argument.

I also agree that the loudest voices are not necessarily right. They are, of course, not necessarily wrong, either. The same applies to discrimination (that I don't believe it to be right), but your concern doesn't seem to extend to the women who are being discriminated against by having male-bodied people forcing their way into the sports for which they have trained so hard in order to achieve what used to be success.

Doodledog

No, I wasn't referring to you. Why would I be if you haven't ever closed down a thread in that manner? It does happen though, and I agree that it is testament to superficiality of argument.

I also agree that the loudest voices are not necessarily right. They are, of course, not necessarily wrong, either. The same applies to discrimination (that I don't believe it to be right), but your concern doesn't seem to extend to the women who are being discriminated against by having male-bodied people forcing their way into the sports for which they have trained so hard in order to achieve what used to be success.

My concern extends to all and always has Doodledog. I have said there is a real problem it women's sport that banning transgender women will not fix.

I've shown it by posting about transmen in states in the US which designate by birth sex, and by posting about the discrimination exercised on black women athletes.

The concept that banning transwomen will fix everything is just wrong and discriminatory. Pretending that pointing out the inadequacies, the pitfalls, and the impracticality of the schemes some propose, is accepting discrimination is just wrong. And shows how weak the argument is.

Glorianny, 🤣🤣🤣
Why would you think it means you?

Thank God for minorities!

Yes, That minority group of women who fought for the rights of all women (AHF) against those males who thought they should not have those rights. And in those days, like today, those males were supported by some women who were happy to be subjugated.

They brought us equality

Which females are still having to fight for. Equality you are trying to exchange for your version-giving males the power to make decisions over what females are or aren’t allowed to have.

They brought us human rights.

Which evidenced by your posts, people are trying to apply to males rather than females.

They recognise that no matter how small the numbers of people are in any section of the community they deserve to be treated equally.

As long as it’s your version of equally and not the equally that respects the rights of females.

They support those who would be overwhelmed, silenced, and sometimes even eliminated, by majorities.

^And in today’s world, that means females, whether here in the UK or elsewhere in the world, where there are males who are so desperate to overwhelm, silence and even eliminate women, together with those women who, by their words and actions support the males doing that overwhelming, silencing and eliminating of women.
Trans Women Are Transwomen.

Excellent post Mollygo.

Yes excellent post Mollygo

The oppressor would not be so strong if he did not have accomplices among the oppressed Simone de Beauvoir

Smileless2012

Excellent post Mollygo.

Agreed.

Glorianny what do you see as being the ‘real problem in women’s sports’?

Doodledog

Smileless2012

Excellent post Mollygo.

Agreed.

Glorianny what do you see as being the ‘real problem in women’s sports’?

The real problem in women's sports is that there is no way of discerning who is a woman without impacting massively on the lives of some minority women.

So black girls who have always been designated. as women enter their events in the country they grew up in, reach the top of their field enter international sport and are then designated as men, and forced to take medication that makes them ill, or stop competing, simply because a test, which was not available to them, has now called them a man. In spite of the fact that there is little evidence of the benefits of natural testosterone. And the levels of testosterone in elite sports people when tested varied, with some males having low ,and some females high, levels.
Low testosterone concentrations were seen 25.4% of male elite competitors in 12 of the 15 sports and high testosterone concentrations in 4.8% of female elite athletes in 3 of the 8 sports tested. Interpretation of the results is more difficult; some of the differences between sports are at least partially due to differences in age of the athletes but the apparent differences between sports remain significant after adjusting for age

So the real problem is that the proposed methods do not work and are discriminatory, besides being based on questionable science.
The method used in US states of using birth sex plainly doesn't work either.
I have absolutely no objection to women's sport being made more equal but I don't think that can be done by any of the proposed methods and I would always vigorously oppose any method which increased discrimination.

But sport is discriminatory by definition. It discriminates against those without the physiology and psychological make-up to get to the top. It discriminates against those who don't have the means to attend training sessions, or to travel to competitions. And those who live with cultural expectations to cover up, to marry and get pregnant early and in all sorts of other ways.

Two (or more) wrongs don't make a right, though. I do get that. But however someone is 'designated' at birth, the fact remains that there are two sexes, and if it turns out that someone who thought she was a woman is in fact male, then that person should not be competing as a woman. There is no compulsion to take medication or to stop competing. The answer is to compete against other male-bodied people. That is fair, and has nothing to do with race.

What do you mean by being made more equal Glorianny?
All your posts so far seem to indicate that women’s sport being more equal must include cheating males.

So how will you stop males competing in female sports, Glorianny? Or are you still supporting the males? The excuses you keep using about remote countries implies that the sports organisers required to get athletes into competitions are either ignorant or cheats themselves.

Now there is a simple DNA swab test, it should be part of every would-be athlete’s training or competitive life. So right from the start competitors would know which sex they are.
Even those in the remote countries who take part in competitions would take part in the test. It would be discriminatory to allow those remote country competitors to be excused on the grounds of their remoteness, and those organising them are already aware that their athletes would face that test.

It should be repeated at the start of every competition, like drug testing, for everyone-not just those likely to be cheating. As with drug testing, the medal winners should be immediately swabbed after a competition as well.

Sadly, there would have to be arrangements made to prevent cheating at that stage too.
The most upsetting thing about this is that while CS was male, there was some confusion about that and the solution was wrongly, IMO to make him take drugs.
Drugs in sport are always wrong.
There is no confusion about Liar Thomas or Emily Bridges who simply see cheating as a way of winning and displacing females from the podium.
I am interested in exactly how many of these remote country male athletes who think they are female there are. Maybe G has the figures at her finger tips.

*However, to make female sport fair, the issue of athletes not knowing what sex they are is the problem that needs addressing, not the inclusion of cheating males in female competitions.
Trans Women Are Transwomen, Glorianny.

Doodledog

But sport is discriminatory by definition. It discriminates against those without the physiology and psychological make-up to get to the top. It discriminates against those who don't have the means to attend training sessions, or to travel to competitions. And those who live with cultural expectations to cover up, to marry and get pregnant early and in all sorts of other ways.

Two (or more) wrongs don't make a right, though. I do get that. But however someone is 'designated' at birth, the fact remains that there are two sexes, and if it turns out that someone who thought she was a woman is in fact male, then that person should not be competing as a woman. There is no compulsion to take medication or to stop competing. The answer is to compete against other male-bodied people. That is fair, and has nothing to do with race.

So you would impose on people who have always identified as women restrictions which would massively impact on their lives. To such an extent that they may even commit suicide, like the Indian swimmer Pratima Gaonkar en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Pratima_Gaonkar

As you have said there are many differences which confer advantages on sports people. Michael Phelps has been discussed. If his differences are permitted why are those who have always been designated women not permitted differences? Does a three inch difference in reach count less than a minimal difference in testosterone?

As for your proposal Mollygo you are happy to have women with vaginas and female genitalia classified as male and made to use men's facilities. Presumably they are just fair game for any man who wants to assault them?

So you would impose on people who have always identified as women restrictions which would massively impact on their lives. To such an extent that they may even commit suicide, like the Indian swimmer Pratima Gaonkar en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Pratima_Gaonkar

Unfortunately, I think that yes, restrictions need to be imposed, as the alternative is to restrict the access to success, education and achievement to women in favour of a small number of male-bodied people. I'm afraid that I don't see threats of suicide as reason to give in to anything that would otherwise be seen as unconscionable. Much as I don't want to see people take their lives, emotional blackmail cannot form a basis for law.

I am not interested in 'designations'. If someone is male-bodied they should compete against other males, just as female-bodied athletes should compete against women. How is that discriminatory or unfair.

As for your proposal Mollygo you are happy to have women with vaginas and female genitalia classified as male and made to use men's facilities. Presumably they are just fair game for any man who wants to assault them?
I see your strategy now. Now I’ve organised the sport so it’s fair, you’ve gone back to toilets.

Fun to see you wriggle Glorianny, but sad that you continue to do so.

Mollygo

*As for your proposal Mollygo you are happy to have women with vaginas and female genitalia classified as male and made to use men's facilities. Presumably they are just fair game for any man who wants to assault them?*
I see your strategy now. Now I’ve organised the sport so it’s fair, you’ve gone back to toilets.

Fun to see you wriggle Glorianny, but sad that you continue to do so.

No those are people in sports who have women's genitalia but would be made to take part as men so would be in men's changing areas using male facilities. How is it wriggling? It is what you want. Caster Semenya has a vagina, but you would just stick her in with men and leave her to it.