Education versus money

M0nica

Anyone who needs to earn their livng is working class.

Which is most of us!

Deedaa

DD went to university and got a degree and a PhD and now earns pretty good money, although she works long hours. Her brother dropped out, didn't even stay for A levels, has done a variety of jobs and is considerably worse off than his sister. My SiL went to university as a mature student, took an engineering degree and trained as a teacher. Last year he gave up teaching and took a job that involved shorter hours and more money.

It all depends what sort of life you want. I would just say that I don't think education is ever wasted.

I also think it depends what kind of person you are. Some people have a thirst for knowledge and an opportunity to study in depth. Somebody once told me that people can lose all their money, but they can never lose their education and I think there's truth in that.

A friend of mine is a twin. He passed his 11+ , grammar school, university, good professional career .
His twin failed 11+ went to secondary modern school, left at 15 worked in an office but attended night classes and gradually passed his law exams.
He eventually became a successful solicitor and earned much more than his twin.
I agree this is just a nice anecdote but I rather like it!

I would say that, in the main, I suspect a university education will result in wider career choices and better long-term pay, though there will always be exceptions.

My husband has three separate higher level academic qualifications and professional qualifications in two disciplines - and in his work role he has had a significant (positive) influence on the country that will outlast his lifetime. (I know that’s true because I read it in a non-fiction book. 😁) Fortunately that was his goal, because the financial benefit has not matched the sacrifices he (we) made whilst he was studying for many years. On the other hand, three of my brothers-in-law have not been to university and all had excellent careers; one has his own business and is a (multi?) millionaire and the other two have very highly paid jobs and have substantial property holdings.

A university education is no longer a guaranteed passport to wealth. It can however open a few doors. After that, the rest is down to Attitude rather than aptitude.

I have worked with many multi millionaires, all self made business people. Many of them were dyslexic and had been written off by the educational system, told they were lazy and stupid. Some were simply square pegs who would never fit into the round hole that society allocated them. So they made their own way by doing it their way.

Making money is about having the necessary skills of course but also having the right mindset, being able to take calculated risks and being prepared to work, work, work, to stay focussed on their goals, to make sacrifices and to play a long game. And when they fail, as they inevitably will, the ability to start again, as many times as it takes. These are not necessarily skills acquired through formal education. They are personal skills and character traits, often honed by "the university of life".

All the muti millionaires I worked with had the same personal qualities, boundless energy and tenacity being the top traits. I often thought of them like terrier dogs who simply wouldn't give up until they reached their goals. And when they did, they just set themselves higher goals. By then it had little to do with financial reward, it was the thrill of the chase.

AI is going to be game changer and sooner than we might imagine. There will be a period of massive social upheaval, in fact it's already starting, Millions of jobs are at risk and a piece of paper will be no guarantee of protection. What will count are personal attributes such as flexibility, creativity and practical skills.

A good example can be found in the construction industry. Mid level architects will be thrown out of work because computer aided design can do their work in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost. However, when you want that house built, you will need hands on bricklayers, roofers, plumbers, electricians, joiners, plasterers, decorators, ground workers. Same with maintenance of existing properties. If you want a new ballcock fitted to your loo, your central heating boiler repaired or your roof fixed then you will need tradesmen who "work on the tools".

Eventually constriction too will change with more houses being factory built and the build process will become more automated but they will still have to be delivered to site and erected by human effort and there will always be a need for on going building maintenance as I mentioned above.

We are in for a period of massive change, a great reset, the social effects which we can't even begin to understand yet. I doubt very much that the old certainties such as stay in school, get a degree and you will be financially stable and successful in life will no longer be viable. I truly believe that ship has sailed.

When climate change really comes to bite and the environmental activists come into power life will change out of all recognition.

God help us all !

Making money is about having the necessary skills of course but also having the right mindset, being able to take calculated risks and being prepared to work, work, work, to stay focussed on their goals, and to make sacrifices.
You've nailed it DerbyshireLass, plus you need to be in the type of job where your earnings can multiply accordingly. Lots of people work hard, but it's usually those in the hot seat who push themselves that extra mile in a relentless manner, who achieve high financial rewards.

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

growstuff

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

Why wouldn't you like to do jobs of utilitarian value?

There will still be a need to educate people to program all the clever AI bots.

Joseann

growstuff

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

Why wouldn't you like to do jobs of utilitarian value?

I didn't say I wouldn't like to do them, but are you seriously suggesting that nobody should study art, music or drama or learn about topics such as history?

Actually, now I'm retired I don't want to do any job at all! I'd like to study all the things I've never had time to study in the past.

Someone else saying this A university education is no longer a guaranteed passport to wealth.

This has never been true and never will be. In the past most graduates became teachers of Clergymen, neither career known for tis wealth making opportunities.

I do not think that AI will put people out of work. Technology is doom has been promulgated since time began. Electric lighting put candlestick makers out of business, but opened up more jobs than it shut down.

DS, an academic has been looking at AI sourced essays. He and others are agreed that they produce unexciting essays, that stick to the middle safe ground and show neither any knowledge of most recent reearch or the way thinking in his discipline is moving. He reckons, no better than a 2;2 or 3rd class degree. Most students want better than that.

AI is only as good as the data it can obtain and someone has to generate the information first. Remember that old phrase for computers 'Garbage in, garbage out. That applies to AI as well.

It depends on the student whether they take advantage of higher education.
If you are a triple A student that aims for a “first” of course go to university you will make a lot more. If you are a “B/C student going for the “Uni Experience” forget it you, are wasting your time, you should go to a technical college and learn a skill.

In my extended family 2 girls wasted 3 yrs then found there were no jobs in that field they now have student loans of £60k+ one is a hotel receptionist, one does part time catering, both returned to live at home. They would have done far better getting a job at 18 and training on the job, many graduates leave their degree off their CV to get any job

For many universities bums on seats is the main criteria, entry qualification is low, course content is poor, now even overseas student entry grades are being reduced to maintain numbers.

A hotel receptionist and a part-time worker probably don't earn enough to pay back their student loans. If they stay below the threshold all their lives they'll never pay them back.

For many universities bums on seats is the main criteria, entry qualification is low, course content is poor, now even overseas student entry grades are being reduced to maintain numbers.

For some universitites and some courses, not many and many

If you are going to university, it needs to be to study something you want to study and either must have a clear career path, or you must be doing it because the subject fascinates you and you know and appreciate it will not give you a direct entry into any career.

As with everything in life. Realism needs to be the basis of any career decision, not wishful thinking.

growstuff

A hotel receptionist and a part-time worker probably don't earn enough to pay back their student loans. If they stay below the threshold all their lives they'll never pay them back.

The student loan is still a millstone and a waste if government resources when it could be spent on something more useful.

growstuff

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

The utilitarian jobs are what build our infrastructure and hold it together. . Society would be in a sorry state without those boring jobs. Imagine a world without sanitation workers.......

But I agree there is indeed more to life than making squillions. I too would love to see more in the way of art, music, literature and the humanities. But my answer was to the op who asked whether education meant a higher pay packet, the answer of course, is not always, I just gave the construction industry as an example.

At a personal level I know a very talented young woman who is a very gifted artist and who graduated with a degree in film animation. She is working in a pub because .computer aided design is taking over the human tasks of animation. Film makers like Disney and Pixar no longer employ artists to draw.

Some of the millionaires I spoke about got their first break doing the mundane utilitarian jobs. Then they found ways of doing them better, set up their own companies in competition. One started out working for a road sweeping company and decided he could offer a better and cheaper service so he set up his own company. Another one started out working in a pub and ended up owing a chain of wine bars before branching out into other areas of the hospitality industry. I just used my experience in knowing and working with them to highlight that there are many paths to a rewarding career. A lack of a university degree neednt hold one back.

Steve Jobs was a university drop out, Richard Branson is dyslexic. Neither had degrees and yet both built empires which employ hundreds of thousands of people.

Yes, there will be openings available in the STEM jobs but these clever AI Bots will do the bulk of the "grunt work" negating the need for much of what are now the mid range white collar jobs,
Chat bots are already beginning to replace call centre workers and apparently there are going to be considerable cuts in civil service jobs coming soon. The banking industry will be revolutionised once we take up CBCD and we become a cashless society.

Katy is right. There will always be a need for a university education, especially for those who are academically gifted but there are far too many young people who are being funnelled down the academic route, racking up huge debts who would be better served by learning more practical skills.

My point is we are currently facing our 4th Industrial Revolution and none of us really know how things will shape up. I think it's fair to say that many of the old certainties will no longer serve us and it will be those who can adapt who will thrive.

Sorry typo. Should read CBDC. Central Banking Digital Currency.

I don't think it is as simple as education versus money.

It depends what you see as education (it comes in many forms); and how much wealth means to you. It depends what you value in life.

Either have a clear career path or choose a generic course with transferable skills, Business Skills, Marketing or Accountancy, not specialist Environmental Studies, Fashion, or Agriculture where there is no career path

Career advice at schools needs to improve a great deal it must be very dispiriting spending all that time at Uni and then no job prospect.

I’d suggest intelligence isn’t always about education. As has been said in various ways here.
Many have made it big without a degree.
A basic education will suffice and too much emphasis is put on further education for too many.

A good example can be found in the construction industry. Mid level architects will be thrown out of work because computer aided design can do their work in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost

CAD has been around for about 20 years.

Is AI, improving it?

Luckygirl3

I don't think it is as simple as education versus money.

It depends what you see as education (it comes in many forms); and how much wealth means to you. It depends what you value in life.

Education is about paying the rent, getting a skill that others will pay you enough to have a decent lifestyle.

The alternative is benefits and very few want that.