Why do billionaires need so much money?

The brightest lawyers can find the loopholes, inexact wording, interpretations to wording, that government lawyers have dreamed up.
Because the governments of the world are unable to afford the brightest lawyers in the world.

Antone is more than welcome to correct me if I am wrong on that.

You would be surprised how much the government spends on the best lawyers.

It is well researched by social epidemiologists Profs Pickett and Wilkinson that a very unequal society, such as the U.K. affects everyone in society, with a wide range of negative social and health outcomes. For example increased violence, mental and physical illness, obesity, and poor educational achievement.

Relative, not actual, wealth and income, is also shown to be related to a wide range of social insecurity, status anxiety and materialism.

Pickett and Wilkinson’s findings are well documented in their first book The Spirit Level, and a subsequent book, The Inner Level.

Germanshepherdsmum

You would be surprised how much the government spends on the best lawyers.

I did read sometime that the Brexit lawyers outsmarted the EU ones?
Or was that the other way around?

And I read in the last few days that HMRC cannot afford to have the best lawyers, or are not given enough money, to chase/prosecute corporations for something or other. Cant remember if I read that on GN or eslewhere.
I will go find a link.

This is from an articel I will link to

HMRC prioritises the recouping of money lost to tax avoidance and evasion through civil settlements, rather than prosecutions, according to Robert Palmer, the director of Tax Justice UK. He cited the risk and cost of prosecuting powerful opponents with deep pockets.

“HMRC is routinely outgunned by the private sector,” he said. “It’s a real problem, because the minute you go against someone who’s rich, they can lawyer up and drag things out. HMRC are outmatched … particularly when it comes to the professional enablers and facilitators.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/20/hmrc-has-not-charged-a-single-company-over-tax-evasion-under-landmark-legislation

If they can reach a settlement that’s the best outcome.

Germanshepherdsmum

You would be surprised how much the government spends on the best lawyers.

Not in the slightest but surprised. Having seen what the Post Office spent in defending the SPM's group action, what the govt spent on contesting judicial reviews, and even the large amounts on lawyers for Boris Johnson... Just the tip of the iceberg, I suspect.

That amount of money gives them that amount of power, and power corrupts. I think it's the power that they are unable to relinquish.

Governments, and their departments, seem to be outgunned by the corproate world.

Governments and their departments can cope with individuals.
But even celebrities can be problematic to them.

i suspect that most of us have no objection to people making money it's just that some of them have poorly paid work forces. Imagine how happy their work force (and the taxman) would be with higher pay. Sadly there is a downside - what HMRC gains in income tax they lose in corporation tax.

Dinahmo

i suspect that most of us have no objection to people making money it's just that some of them have poorly paid work forces. Imagine how happy their work force (and the taxman) would be with higher pay. Sadly there is a downside - what HMRC gains in income tax they lose in corporation tax.

I agree with you on poorly paid workforce, when DH & I were starting out our employees were paid more than us and had much shorter working weeks.

We had invested every £ we had, worked long hours, including me giving birth on Friday and working by phone on the Monday.

A happy workforce is more productive and loyal. It is easier for a SME to look after its employees than a multi national because it is more personal.

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo

i suspect that most of us have no objection to people making money it's just that some of them have poorly paid work forces. Imagine how happy their work force (and the taxman) would be with higher pay. Sadly there is a downside - what HMRC gains in income tax they lose in corporation tax.

I agree with you on poorly paid workforce, when DH & I were starting out our employees were paid more than us and had much shorter working weeks.

We had invested every £ we had, worked long hours, including me giving birth on Friday and working by phone on the Monday.

A happy workforce is more productive and loyal. It is easier for a SME to look after its employees than a multi national because it is more personal.

I don't think that anyone is pointing at SMEs such as your business, GG13. I think you are the backbone of the country in that SMEs are usually community based and serve the community in which they are based. Goodness, all those plumbers, builders, electricians, hairdressers, little convenience stores and larger, but not massive businesses which provide employment and help to sustain the domestic economy. I don't think the sort of wealth you might have is anywhere near the sort of wealth this thread is about.

I read (well, skimmed through) the report Lord Sikka was quoting from and it appears that the markups shown were just that, mark ups. So yes, one would have to take into consideration pre tax costs of the business. But, what is interesting is that the figures show that SMEs generally work on a much lower mark up than the large enterprises, about 25% was the figure given.

The report is here, if you have time to look at it. It looks as though it was prepared for a presentation at Davos.

www.balancedeconomy.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Davos-Taken-not-Earned-full-Report-2024-FINAL.pdf

They don’t.

The simple answer is they don’t!

Cabbie21

I was just thinking yesterday when local TV was showing the effects of cuts by the cash strapped council, if only some philanthropists would rescue the leisure centre or lunch club or library. Where are the Rowntree, Cadbury of yesteryear. and others who have millions but are prepared to use their wealth for the common good?

I agree. Many do, many don’t!

There's nothing wrong with making money. Most who give to charity do so to climb their own elite social ladder. The wealthy too have their own pecking order. So they are in their own social status clique! I get far more pissed off with the upper middle class (well they think they are) They drive around in those ridiculous 4 x4's and think they can park in 2 bays. They actually don't have any class about them. And of course they're in their own class pecking order. I'd like to just see more genuine kindness whatever your supposed class or social group. Sad how we all pigeon hole each other.

Does it matter? Really? The Press also have a lot to answer for. We don't really know these people do we?

I don't think it is anyone else's business as to why people continue to go on earning money when they've already got more than enough to live on. They've found a way to earn a lifestyle that most of us will only ever dream of. When it comes to wealth I find a huge proportion of society are very bitter and judgmental. Live and let live it isn't their fault that many of us chose to live the lives that we have rather than go out and seek our own fame and fortune. I was lazy, I had a talent that I chose not to use and could have now been living a better life although probably by no means a billionaire but the same thing applies. Live and let live, I applaud all of those who did go out and chase that pot of gold. Success reaps its own rewards most of which are deserved so long as it didn't involve crime.

I don’t give to charity in order to climb a social ladder - nobody but the recipients know what I give, or to whom. My husband drives a ‘4x4’ (Range Rover). My car would technically fall within that description as although a sports car it has four wheel drive. Neither car is ridiculous and each is parked within one space. I don’t think you know much about ‘class’ Plevey. You’re the one putting people in pigeon holes without knowing anything about them.

SuzyG

Does it matter? Really? The Press also have a lot to answer for. We don't really know these people do we?

It matters because:

Firstly, they are sucking money out of the global economy which, if more equably distributed could alleviate so much poverty and help countries to deal with the devastating effects of climate change. To protect their wealth they work to support the economic ideologies which ensure that wealth does flow upwards.

Secondly: they are using up a hugely disproportionate share of the world's finite resources. They are adding to global warming in a big way by use of private jets and luxury yacht. did you know that one private jet emits more carbon than would a full passenger aircraft?

Thirdly: The few philanthropists among them can barely scratch the surface of the amount of money needed to lift a huge number of the global population out of poverty and want.

I have said before, I have no problem with people being in business and earning themselves a comfortable living. So long, of course, they ensure that the people who work for them earn enough to live comfortably, too, but I'd like it to be done within an economic system which curtails the upward flow of money, ensures a more equable distribution and discourages the acquisition of wealth just for the sake of being wealthy.

Doesn’t it depend on what their assets consist of, Maizie? For instance, ownership of businesses which employ thousands of people and generate tax revenue, and of multiple properties which are let to people who can’t afford to buy (and still wouldn’t be able to if said properties were sold)? They don’t all squirrel everything away and sail around in yachts.

Power, greed and corruption

They don't "need"that amount of money. For some it's greed and obsession, as seems to be the case with the well cited couple in the news. For others, money is a means to benefit others through the establishment of charities and philanthropic trusts etc. The latter group are less likely to have their names plastered over the headlines

I think it's the old idea of money comes to money. When you reach a certain level of wealth your money, through investments, keeps growing by itself (or at least through the efforts of the trolls in Gringott's wizarding bank aka the stock exchange). It becomes unstoppable unless, of course, you give it all away.