Transgender women and an early state pension.

Smileless2012

Trans men are women VS, if they weren't they wouldn't be able to be pregnant. I'm not worried about it, I just happen to find it ridiculous and annoying in equal measure.

No they aren't, they are trans men, some of them legally so it's not very nice to call them women

I know some people don't care about saying that and how potentially harmful it is to a demographic who have a horrifically high rate of suicide but I really cannot let that go unchallenged and would remind people to remember personal responsibility in these situations

Which disproves the belief/theory that transgender is always due to gender dysphoria Rosie. Surely the last thing a trans man with genuine gender dysphoria would want to do, would be to become pregnant.

Studies are ongoing to understand the causes of gender dysphoria and the medical community agree it is real I don't think anybody has denied there is a rare condition of gender dysphoria where somebody is distressed by their biological body and needs to have it modified surgically. I find it extremely difficult to reconcile a transman with dysphoria being happy to have a 9 month pregnancy and vaginal delivery. It is the most exclusively female thing you can do, something no male can. It is the one thing that transmen make the front page for though. Never for winning a male sporting prize, man of the year, top spot in any male dominated area, etc.

Trans men are women VS, if they weren't they wouldn't be able to be pregnant. I'm not worried about it, I just happen to find it ridiculous and annoying in equal measure.

Women are people and trans men are also people who are sometimes able to carry a pregnancy

I wouldn't worry about it, I don't ever ask to be referred to as "woman" I have a name

On 'Morning Live' this morning, Dr. Ranj was discussing safe levels of caffeine and referred too 'people who are pregnant'; only women can be pregnant.

I agree Labrador, any man or woman who commits to full transition with surgery to remove and drastically alter their outward appearance should not only be taken seriously, but be able to live their life in peace without fear of prejudice, but this of course needs to be reciprocated.

It's surely not unreasonable to expect trans women to be understanding of and sympathetic too the concerns of women, when it comes to having our spaces, our sporting competitions, social environments and the very language that pertains to us as women protected.

I believe that the vast majority of them do. They are not the ones who would insist on attending lesbian dating events complete with their male genitalia, competing against women in sports with the unfair advantage their male biology gives them.

They are not the ones who refer to their male genitalia as a 'lady dick', who verbally abuse and threaten those who have the courage to stand up for the women, they claim they want to be because they know what it 'feels like to be a woman'.

They are the bullies who clearly don't understand what it means and what it is like to be a woman.

I don't understand what it must be like to feel that you've been born into the wrong body which is what gender dysphoria is, affecting 0.005 - 0.014% of the population, but I don't see how a man can claim that is the case for them, if they don't just retain their male body, but flaunt it and rename their penis 'lady dick'.

I regard the use of gender dysphoria with regard to the aforementioned as an attempt to give legitimacy where none exists.

Key points from that news article

Trans women have been using the women's pond since 2010

A vote was organised to ban trans women

3/4 of the 200 people who voted, voted to not take away the privilege from trans women

The meeting then had to be abandoned because a few of the people who had voted to take away something trans women had had access to for 14 years then became confrontation and were shouting

As far as the specific pension issue is concerned I can absolutely understand the WASPI women or anyone specifically adversely affected by pension issues being vastly irritated. As well if anyone is "playing the system" (not being genuinely transgender at at all) they should be prevented from doing this.
As far as transgender issues in general are concerned , surely this is a tiny , tiny percentage of the total UK population. Are we therefore in danger of getting our collective knickers in a twist over not very much ?
My concerns are that young people may mistakenly be "regendered"(is that a word?) with adverse or even irreversible consequences when they are more mature and also any transgender "frauds" with malicious motives.
In principal surgery shouldn't make any difference but when I think about it if a bloke is prepared to have his wotsits chopped off because he is so uncomfortable in himself , then we should take him seriously. No?????
(I know transgendering covers both sexes and anything inbetween).
If these are people genuinely uncomfortable in themselves then we should try and help.?
Since there is little public money available and local councils are going bankrupt and the NHS is sinking, I worry about the public expenditure in catering to every tiny minority and every individual difference but that , I suppose , is selfish.
I find all the " my pronouns are" stuff irritating but that's probably because I'm old and they would probably find my "binaryness" irritating also.
It"s a tricky one. Full disclosure I'm a 70+ straight woman.
Always provided that I'm not able to be endangered in a ladies loo by some 15 stone docker bent on mischief just because he calls himself "Alice" (joke°);
It's a tricky one.

Smileless2012

I agree Cossy that "the people that have ever stopped biological women being free are biological men". Trans women are biological men and if intact trans women regardless of having a GRC are allowed into spaces reserved for biological women, and all the other areas constantly being referred too, they are infringing on biological women's freedom.

Well said, Smileless, I completely agree.

I see that a decision has been made to admit biological men, aka transwoman, into the Women’s Pond at Hampstead. Women will have nowhere to go to be free from the male gaze. www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/24160179.hampstead-ladies-swimming-pond-vote-keep-trans-women/

Allsorts

Violet, just how are men transitioning to women naturally,. Without chemical or surgical intervention. Can't be done however much you try to turn anyone into someone else biologically they remain what they were.its a pity such a lot decide they are another sex before they marry and bring children into the world the natural way, , they are the victims.
You have your opinion which I titalkyvagainsagainst reject and I have mine which you can totally reject.

I don't agree with societies need to bully people they don't understand for being different

Studies are ongoing to understand the causes of gender dysphoria and the medical community agree it is real

If you ever had a trans friend or family member I think you would understand that who these people are matters more than what they look like

Cossy I will use a quote from Robert Burns" a man is a man for aw that"

Rosie51

Thanks Callistemon I can't believe there will be anyone who will fit those criteria. Most transwomen do not have gender reassignment surgery, so the likelihood of one who had fulfilling the rest of the requirement is remote. What a waste of time preparing this guidance.

As this is a court ruling, there may be one person who challenged this in court.

What is society coming too Doodledog that it should even be considered necessary to segregate boys and girls because if this isn't done, girls are likely to be victims of 'masculine toxicity'?

To me, this is 'treating' the symptoms and not addressing the cause.

You're right of course, what happens if a boy identifies as a girl? he'

Smileless2012

I agree Cossy that "the people that have ever stopped biological women being free are biological men". Trans women are biological men and if intact trans women regardless of having a GRC are allowed into spaces reserved for biological women, and all the other areas constantly being referred too, they are infringing on biological women's freedom.

This is the crux of the matter.

I have zero problem with people living as they choose. But not if doing so prevents others from living as they need to, and much of the trans movement is asking for this prevention to be normalised.

I've just been hearing about plans in Scotland to separate girls and boys in schools, to protect girls from 'toxic masculinity' of the type advocated by Andrew Tate. From what I gather this would include giving girls protected slots to use equipment (so that boys don't muscle in) and separate playgrounds so that girls can mix with other girls uninterrupted by attention-seeking boys. Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of this suggestion - how can schemes like this (or anything intended to redress the balance between the sexes) ever get off the ground if any boy can just say he's a girl and behave exactly as before? Obviously the same principle applies to men in women's sport, on female shortlists, in the WI, or in a lesbian club. Basically, as long as male people (men or boys) can just 'identify' as female, women and girls have nowhere to call our own.

Callistemon21

Doodledog

Eligibility
You may be entitled to backdated State Pension if all the following apply:

you were born between 31 October 1953 and 6 November 1953
you had lived in your acquired gender for at least 2 years by 31 October 2018
you have had gender reassignment surgery
This is because a court ruling means that a transgender person who has had gender reassignment surgery and lived in their acquired gender for a significant period must be recognised in their acquired gender for State Pension purposes.

www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-backdated-state-pension-if-youre-a-transgender-woman

That answers my query anyway.

I had a dear family member who was Transgender, had complete surgical transition born between those date and got their pension the same as any other woman.
I remember asking her about how that worked. Also all the Government paperwork(Tax NI) is centralised in one place for those who have gone through this.
Sadly only got her pension for just over a year as she passed away. A gentle, kinder, private person you could every meet.

Doodledog

I hope this isn’t going to end with grizzling about bullying by anyone who disagrees!

As others have said, there is no hierarchy, and it’s good to have diversity of opinion. It’s true that we have seen posters come and go, reinventing themselves when they’ve ‘left in a hurry’, but to me that only matters if they rely on cheap digs instead of argument. I really can’t be doing with ‘some people’ instead of names, and inferences that lurk below the surface - just spit it out if you (generic) have something to say.

I would love someone to answer the questions in my last post, but no-one ever has, so I remain unconvinced that women should give up our spaces, our identities and our place in the world as a way of ‘being kind’.

Re my earlier link - I did say that the dates were out, but wonder if there was a mistake in the OP. We really need a link to the source. It doesn’t alter my sentiments one whit though. Whether this is a real claim or not, I stand by my views, which go much wider than this.

I gave you the link in my post earlier today.

Anyway - re the dates - Is there a link to the source of the information in the OP?

As already stated back in the thread, it’s from the Government website. Here you go.

www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-backdated-state-pension-if-youre-a-transgender-woman

Smileless2012

I agree Cossy that "the people that have ever stopped biological women being free are biological men". Trans women are biological men and if intact trans women regardless of having a GRC are allowed into spaces reserved for biological women, and all the other areas constantly being referred too, they are infringing on biological women's freedom.

Put that way, I do actually agree! It’s all so complex! But I guess the bottom line is everyone’s safeguarding and safety.

Joseann

Sorry. I'm in upbeat mood because my pension finally starts next week! For me there are more important things to worry about.

WHOOP WHOOP 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳 I am getting mine in December!

Nothing suprises me anymore I’m afraid

Joseann .

Joseann

Sorry. I'm in upbeat mood because my pension finally starts next week! For me there are more important things to worry about.

Congratulations, Joseann!

I'd love to be transgender, transyoung and transbeautiful . Sadly, if I were a dog, I'd be the one in the photo though.

I agree Cossy that "the people that have ever stopped biological women being free are biological men". Trans women are biological men and if intact trans women regardless of having a GRC are allowed into spaces reserved for biological women, and all the other areas constantly being referred too, they are infringing on biological women's freedom.

Thanks, Calli.

I think the requirement to have had surgery would rule out the vast majority, but as a surgically transitioned male must be recognised as female for state pension purposes then it's only fair that this applies for better and worse.

Sorry. I'm in upbeat mood because my pension finally starts next week! For me there are more important things to worry about.