Michael Shellenberger: WPATH - 'Possibly the worst medical scandal in history'

JaneJudge

I think there is a difference between being open minded and non judgemental about how people want to identify as an adult (18+) and young children and those below 18 being given puberty blockers and operations. I don't know how it was even ethical.

I don't care how people identify, but I do care about vulnerable children, and about the politics of the whole shebang, which is anti-women.

Smileless2012

Perhaps if, especially with vulnerable children, they'd been loved and accepted as they are there would have not been the need to encourage allow and enable them to take medication which in some cases has led to irreversible consequences, both physically and mentally.

'Transing the gay away' is as bad as conversion therapy if not worse Doodledog because of the physical damage as well as the psychological.

I agree, Smileless, and hope I haven't inadvertently suggested otherwise.

I also agree with you, Galaxy that being open minded in this case is not an option. That horse has bolted. WRT culpability, I deleted a post about that before posting, as my feelings were running high when thinking about the ruined lives, and I decided to consider the whether I should speak my mind.

I think there is a difference between being open minded and non judgemental about how people want to identify as an adult (18+) and young children and those below 18 being given puberty blockers and operations. I don't know how it was even ethical.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Galaxy

I dont want to be open minded about this. Those who have been are culpable in my view.

Magdalen Burns had a very apt saying about this phenomenon.

I dont want to be open minded about this. Those who have been are culpable in my view.

Evidence for that VS?
How are you defining younger generations on this thread?

Rosie51, Doodledog, Smileless2012, the experimentation on these children and the damage done to their future lives by that experimentation is appalling.

Perhaps if, especially with vulnerable children, they'd been loved and accepted as they are there would have not been the need to encourage allow and enable them to take medication which in some cases has led to irreversible consequences, both physically and mentally.

'Transing the gay away' is as bad as conversion therapy if not worse Doodledog because of the physical damage as well as the psychological.

I share your hope, Rosie. This is likely to be the scandal of our times, with suffering going on for many years.

VioletSky

Glad to read on this thread that younger generations are being a bit more open minded

I don't know what the outcome here will be. I seem to read about almost everything being carcinogenic these days

I hope the outcome in general will be human beings loved and accepted as they are

Too late for those whose bodies have been destroyed by the "fully reversible" puberty blockers so beloved of the trans lobby and their allies.
Let's hope that 'transing the gay away' is confined to history and the perfect bodies of potentially gay and lesbian children are left unsullied so they can enjoy adult loving relationships and full sexual function in the future.

It's all very well being loved and accepted, but if your body has been mutilated and you don't function sexually, yet have to take hormones for the rest of your life, things aren't going to be a bed of roses, are they?

I'm not sure what you mean by younger generations being open minded? Open to the idea that this is a huge scandal that will result in prosecutions and massive claims for compensation? I hope you're wrong about cancers being caused by hormone treatments, but it wouldn't surprise me. That is one of the many reasons why giving hormones to children needed vigorous testing long before it was allowed.

Glad to read on this thread that younger generations are being a bit more open minded

I don't know what the outcome here will be. I seem to read about almost everything being carcinogenic these days

I hope the outcome in general will be human beings loved and accepted as they are

In what other circumstances would people be offered untested, unresearched drugs with no evidence that they won't do harm?

The trans lobby has been very powerful, but the edifice is starting to crumble, I hope. When the lawsuits and malpractice claims start coming in it will be interesting to see who continues to stick with the 'it's all a plot by the US Right and pro-life nutters' defence. My guess is that a lot will run a mile, as it is patent rubbish.

There will be the usual doubling down and 'only obeying orders' pleas from those who have encouraged the victims in their beliefs, of course. I feel sorry for parents who have been caught up in this, as the vast majority will have been trying to do the best for their children, and it's uncharted territory. Educators and policy makers are another matter, IMO.

I understand that the Cass report is due soon, which will add to the turning of the tide. I hope so for the sake of so many children (although adult 'care' in this regard is sadly lacking, too).

Great minds Namsnanny

X posts smileless👍🤣

1 child experimented on is one too many, for my concience Glorianny

The sooner it is made clear that WPATH is a self appointed organisation who decided to promote them selves as a world authority the better

Yes I agree Rosie which makes me despair that the main stream is downgrading the priority of such an organisation.
As has been said before on these threads, people loose their jobs if they
speak out.
So it isnt without consequences when they do so.
But the BBC in particular was such a well respected institution, known for it's fair approach to news.
I'm saddened they no longer represent the go to place to find the least biased, most truthful scrutiny on a subject.

As you posted Glorianny currently being described puberty blockers so that wont take into account how many were being described but are no longer.

One child is one child too many.

The sooner it is made clear that WPATH are a self appointed organisation in the USA who decided they would be the world authority the better. The current president Marcie Bowers has admitted that no child put on puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 has ever or will ever experience orgasm. Lucky Marcie, who experienced adult transition as did the vast majority of those advocating for child transition, and happily putting children on this path.

There is a bit of an anomaly with the BBC article. It states only 100 children are currently prescribed puberty blockers. There are over 14 million under 18s, slightly less than 1% of the population is trans. If routine prescribing had been happening surely there would be more than 100 children on the drug? Doesn't the word "routine" imply it is happening regularly?

Apparently the BBC or other channels still haven't reported on the WPATH files.
It's such a big news worthy item, not a cat up a tree, or Jesus face on a piece of toast sort of thing.
If this doesnt clearly show bias, I'm not sure what does.
How much more evidence that our (g)children are under threat from this ideology do we need?
So much money being made by unscrupulous people.

Mollygo 👍
It's alarming how many countries and their institutions have been influenced by this.
Poor countries such as those in Africa are given hand outs related to the promotion of this, ideology.
Not dissimilar to the Costa coffee ad. Although on a greater scale.
It is going to take a lot of money and courage to create a significant push back imv.

I looked at it and thought, well it’s a start. I’m concerned how many research projects may spring up to justify the continued use.
Namsnanny your wriggle room sums my concerns perfectly.

I gather the Times isnt happy with the NHS statement.
I havent read it, but it sounds encouraging.

Elegran

16 hours ago - NHS England to stop prescribing puberty blockers.
"Children will no longer routinely be prescribed puberty blockers at gender identity clinics, NHS England has confirmed.
The decision comes after a review found there was "not enough evidence" they are safe or effective.
Puberty blockers, which pause the physical changes of puberty, will now only be available as part of research."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68549091

Thank you Elegran

Although, I do wish this was on the home page rather than being buried under health, it is rather a big story!

I agree with Rosie on this point.

Also, this statement is from the NHS, it isnt reporting on the malpractice of WPATH by the BBC.

Another point I would like to make on the NHS statement, is on the worrying last piece of the statement ie:
Puberty blockers will only be available as part of research

Why? It surely isnt ethical to 'test' these drugs on children?

The only research I have been able to find was done with rats. Testosterone made female rats more risk taking and aggressive. Males were more anxious and submissive. If that is to be believed.

I dont know about anyone else, and forgive me if I see far too much wriggle room in this statement, and, simply put I don't trust it as far as I can throw it.
It does after all have billions of pounds already poured into marketing and PR.

Frankly, nothing would make me happier than finding this was all a scam, and that once exposed, it could be stopped.

grannyactivist

Doodledog - quite right to pick me up on the use of the word gender as I absolutely agree with you.

I used the word because when I wrote my post I was ‘channeling’ my relative’s word usage; which ironically I have corrected in the past. 🙄

Phew! I didn't want to be 'that' poster, but it is so important that people (in general) don't get used to seeing the terms used interchangeably, isn't it? I am sure it is a deliberate ploy, along with all the other language mangling, to make the impossible seem reasonable, and to stifle any meaningful debate.