Conjoined twins

sodapop I imagine what grandMattie reported was what was ‘unpleasant’ (to say the very least). Not the account of it.

If DH were alive I think his comment would begin with, ‘What sort of man….?’

Be honest. There will be a lot of people thinking that way.

Sodapop thanks for your post I was beginning to think I was the one out of tune here

Of course panic attacks are horrible but you can’t imagine, read or dwell on someone else’s situation if it’s causes you such discomfort, (one of my bosses (a guy) used to come over faint if you even mentioned the word snake so he avoided looking or thinking or reading about them)

If you know something like this would make you have a psnic attack or feel uncomfortable or squeamish, stop reading talking or thinking about it It s the equivalent of ‘oh I have a big infected wound here let me just poke and dig it a bit more’

Exactly merlotgran!

BlueBelle

I ve just had a look on line and they married 3 years ago so I reckon they ve worked it out by now 🤣

Yes, it's not "new news".

They must all get on well which is just as well because they are both independently minded women.

BlueBelle

But why on earth is anyone on here unsettled by it? It’s not our life. These two ladies have been joined since they were born they know no other way of life so to them this is their normal. They have worked out how to do many things over the years …go to the toilet together , have a bath, wash their hair, even get dressed what if one wants a blue dress and one a red one ? Look at menstruation problems they ve had to deal with. Medical problems and procedures Everything is done differently to how we can imagine but they’ve sorted it, they are 34 years old so have had plenty of time to work it all out

Why do we have to imagine what’s happening in their bed it’s nothing to do with us ( do we need to imagine what’s going on in the sex life of other people) they’re happy why would you feel unsettled about somebody elses happiness , it’s just not our business to imagine the ins and outs They have obviously worked out how to do so many things since birth and this is just another

Be truthful you’re all ‘unsettled’ because it involves SEX 🤣

Have you done with the finger-wagging now?!

People can be "unsettled" by things that will most likely never affect them, that is why films are made and books written, because they capture the imagination. Isn't it true that we can sympathise with heroines and heroes in literature, or in real life, without ever experiencing what might be happening to them, or empathise with those who are suffering even though their misery might not be ours?? Have you never read a book or seen a film or documentary that has - as the saying goes - "stayed with you"... possibly because it unearths some personal fear or insecurity?

Of course people are curious about sex (why the capitals?), curiosity is a natural human trait - what makes it unpleasant is when people haven't learned to control their instinct to know and take an intrusive and prurient interest - as happened with the public announcement of Catherine's surgery.

On a personal level, I value my space, privacy and selfish trait of being able to do what I want when I want almost obsessively, and the first thing that struck me when I read about this was not the 'sex' (I'm quite sure various people with a multitude of disabilities navigate this natural instinct quite successfully and have done since the dawn of time) but the inability of the other twin to have her own space now a third person has entered the relationship, in other words I projected my own anxiety about my personal autonomy on her and found it unsettling.

Please stop admonishing us - we know it's none of our business in the real world, but are just sharing our thoughts on here.

I never thought I would be reading posts on GN where people want to tell us that they are unsettled by the thought of another's disability. A lot of people may well be thinking that way and that is what I find unsettling.

Disability is not what I am unsettled about. I would be unsettled every moment of my working life if that was the case.

Exactly Dickens.
You have said pretty much what I was going to say.

These women lead lives so totally different from virtually every other person on the planet, that curiosity about how they manage their extraordinary existence and yet still stay sane is inevitable isn’t it?

They are to be congratulated for making such a success of a life which most people would find completely intolerable.

I am pleased you posted this Urms. I had never read about these women before.

Very thought provoking.

I have seen those two young ladies on various documentaries, they have been together since conception and will remain that way. They are who they are - it is what it is! Of course they wish to do things in life that we all do and why not !? As for their sex life , we don't invade anyone's private life . GM I appreciate your term 'UGH' was not meant unkindly, it was more an expression of how you would feel in that desperate situation. The twins you refer to had never been apart and suddenly the remaining twin had lost her sister, and was now in a dire situation knowing her fate , that must have been unbearable. We must not view conjoined twins through our eyes that is a fruitless exercise! Nature plays lots of cruel games it is up to us to respect and accept the differences in people -not always easy I do know that but I try!!!

I have seen these two women before, maybe it was a documentary , I can’t remember. I don’t know if it’s interesting or disturbing, but it’s certainly unusual. I’m just glad I was never given the devastating (to me) news when I was pregnant that I was carrying conjoined twins. Others may find this distasteful, but I think I would have opted for a termination.

I would too Maddyone although I recognise it may be an unpopular opinion.
One of my D’s was strongly advised to terminate her first much- wanted pregnancy as the 12 week scan and further tests showed a baby at the top of the scale of handicap, possibly unlikely to make term but profoundly physically and probably mentally handicapped.
It broke her heart, ours too, and we agreed that we would support them in their decision either way - even moving to London to live near enough to help if necessary. DH was a Catholic and in principle opposed to abortion but even he, like me, heaved a sigh of relief.
We are now in a position, with medical knowledge and expertise to save unborn and perinatal life totally unlike “natures way” and in the vast majority of scenarios, thank god for that.
But just because you can do something does not always mean you should
However, I digress.
The young people involved will have more than enough to cope with without my tuppenceworth, so I can only hope their lives together are happy.

@ Shelflife I do not for a moment think GM’s “Ugh” was anything more than sympathetic repulsion at the surviving twin having to carry the dead sister until she too died.
Just as I shudder when I hear of an expectant mum having to carry a baby who has died in utero until it can be delivered-and indeed to go through a vaginal delivery without the hope of a baby at the end of her process.
I think you misjudged her comment.

Parsley3

I never thought I would be reading posts on GN where people want to tell us that they are unsettled by the thought of another's disability. A lot of people may well be thinking that way and that is what I find unsettling.

Perhaps what is unsettling - or thought-provoking - is the randomness (if that's the right word) of human nature, of biology, which can so easily 'mis-fire' and in so doing, challenge our notion of an ordered life that I believe most people aim to achieve.

It's something over which we have very little control and, in a world geared to the able-bodied, it seems grossly unfair that some have to navigate life to an extent that most of us, in our imagination, find quite daunting.

So I don't think it's so much that we are unsettled by the thought of another's disability so much as what it represents - which is our inability to control nature.

R.M. I appreciate your response and I too shudder at the implications of such situations. We are discussing the twins and yes ' sympathetic repulsion' is a way to describe the situation. However the twins are here and they are not the only ones and for the twins that died there was no alternative. All I am thinking about is once it has happened there is no other way than to live as well as possible. I agree that a woman having to carry a child that has died before birth and then deliver it does not bear thinky about!
However I don't understand your comparison.

Chang & Eng died within a day of each other, I believe, if not hours.
But I think it was how/where they were joined to each other that caused that.
I think these girls could possibly be parted if one died, but I'm not entirely sure.
They passed their driving tests a couple of years ago.
Imagine, though, getting frisky and the guy touches the wrong book and gets clouted for it 🤣🤣

In Tenterden in Kent, there was a famous set of conjoined twins; the town symbol is of those women. When one died, it took the other several weeks to die, carrying her dead sister with her. Ugh!

This was presumably long ago too.

@Shelflife this was what I was comparing carrying a dead baby ^in utero^to for even a few days.

My curiosity piqued I have now looked them up

Mary and Eliza Chulkhurst (or Chalkhurst), commonly known as the Biddenden Maids (1100–1134), were a pair of conjoined twins supposedly born in Biddenden, Kent, England, in the year 1100.
So they survived for 34 years - incredible.
Throughout most of the 19th century little research was carried out into the origins of the legend. Despite the doubts among historians, in the 19th century the legend became increasingly popular and the village of Biddenden was thronged with rowdy visitors every Easter. In the late 19th century historians investigated the origins of the legend. It was suggested that the twins had genuinely existed but had been joined at the hip only rather than at both the hip and shoulder, and that they had lived in the 16th rather than the 12th century

I imagine most women who were carrying conjoined twins in the past probably died. They wouldn’t have been able to give birth naturally and Caesarian births weren’t very common.

^ I think these girls could possibly be parted if one died, but I'm not entirely sure^

I doubt it. They have one arm each - but no feeling in the arm of the opposite side apparently - have their own heart, stomach but from the waist down it is all just one body. I do not see separation ever being possible because of the complexity.

I suppose they share a level of intimacy impossible for us and we have a level of privacy unimaginable for them.

RosiesMaw

@ Shelflife I do not for a moment think GM’s “Ugh” was anything more than sympathetic repulsion at the surviving twin having to carry the dead sister until she too died.
Just as I shudder when I hear of an expectant mum having to carry a baby who has died in utero until it can be delivered-and indeed to go through a vaginal delivery without the hope of a baby at the end of her process.
I think you misjudged her comment.

I entirely agree with your interpretation of GrandMattie’s post - and the analogy of the death of one conjoined twin to the terrible ordeal of a mother whose baby dies in the womb - a harrowing experience which one of my business partners went through.

sodapop

Can't believe some of the comments on here. These ladies have learned to live with the restrictions their condition imposes on them and are having a as full and happy a life as they can. It's not for us to speculate about their life.
grandmattie I find your post quite unpleasant.

I agree sodapop. There has been some really quite callous posts on Gransnet just lately

Urmstongran

I suppose they share a level of intimacy impossible for us and we have a level of privacy unimaginable for them.

... in a nutshell URMS.

That need most (I assume) of us have - for a quiet space in which to just think and be...

When there were just the two of them they must have had a degree of 'separateness' where they could each, by mutual agreement and recognition of the need, just be themselves. But a third person alters the whole dynamic.

I agree sodapop. There has been some really quite callous posts on Gransnet just lately

I’d like to know what specifically you regard as callous?
Pragmatic, certainly but not callous.