Should women have equal pay and opportunities?

We are an excessively qualified family. In decreasing order DS has the most qualifications, then DH, then me, then DD. We all have at least 2 qualifications.

I read According to Trades Union Congress' (TUC) pay analysis, there is a gender pay difference of 14.3 per cent in 2024. TUC represents more than 5.6 million people in 48 different unions. The data says the net average wage for men and women between the ages of 40 and 49 is presently £36,192 for women and £42,900 for men.

It seems to me the gap is smaller than in the past. However a little bit wider than I presumed from thinking of our daughters and granddaughters.

M0nica

No, Norah they don't, at least not unless they are very well qualified.

38% of women work part time compared with 14% of men commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06838/ Most of them because they have children to care for.

In the UK, the sectors with the most women in employment are health and social work (accounting for 21% of all jobs held by women as of September 2023), the wholesale and retail trade (12%) and education (12%). In the health and social work sector, 77% of jobs are held by women, and in education it is 70%. source: as above.

These are all employment areas where wages are low. Certainly hospital doctors are paid well but the majority of workers in the health sector are not doctors.

Women are still seriously at a disadvantage in the labour market, more likely to be working part time and more likely to be in poorly paid sectors of the economy. Whn divorce happens, they are more likely to end up single parents caring for children than men are.

Interesting.

I've always been led to believe that women, in the last 30 or so years were approaching men in education, qualification(s), and salary.

Our daughters and granddaughters certainly all have far more education/qualifications than me (I have none, they have advanced degrees).

No, Norah they don't, at least not unless they are very well qualified.

38% of women work part time compared with 14% of men commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06838/ Most of them because they have children to care for.

In the UK, the sectors with the most women in employment are health and social work (accounting for 21% of all jobs held by women as of September 2023), the wholesale and retail trade (12%) and education (12%). In the health and social work sector, 77% of jobs are held by women, and in education it is 70%. source: as above.

These are all employment areas where wages are low. Certainly hospital doctors are paid well but the majority of workers in the health sector are not doctors.

Women are still seriously at a disadvantage in the labour market, more likely to be working part time and more likely to be in poorly paid sectors of the economy. Whn divorce happens, they are more likely to end up single parents caring for children than men are.

eazybee

^Well, if both work (apart from all the work inside a home), what happens if a working woman runs off with another person? I see no difference^.

Oh yes there is, unless the woman has worked full time all of her married life. The man generally (not always) leaves the children behind or undertakes a limited amount of childcare; he probably earns a higher salary whereas she, because of child responsibilities has not pursued her career as high as the husband, or built up the same pension pot.
Divorcees are described as the new poor; a comfortable life suddenly upended, loss of home, less income, more expenditure, and much less time to earn sufficient money.
I am aware this is not entirely the case and more women are better equipped for the single life, as are men, but it is a sad reflection on our times.

Are you referencing now or 40 years ago?

Now women work outside the home much more, it seems all their married life, and people split childcare upon divorce. Couples - those people typically earn similar salaries now, don't they?

MissAdventure

women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

This one is from the Bible ie.,The Old Testament.

I believe women should have equal pay and equal opportunities. In fact I strongly encouraged my daughter to be self sufficient.
Saw an article regarding inequality in pensions which says among those aged 60-64 (ie my age), nearly two thirds of women have no private pension wealth.

I find that hard to believe, can this be true?

My MIL divorced her husband in the 1960s and at that time, she was working as head of the admin department and she retired in the 70s with an occupational pension and a state pension.

... "thanks goodness"??

oh my eyes

I meant "thank goodness"

Norah

Eloethan

What happens when the man runs off with someone else and the "little woman" is left destitute, with few skills and little employment experience?

Is the OP aware that many marriages break down these days?

Well, if both work (apart from all the work inside a home), what happens if a working woman runs off with another person? I see no difference.

I think you are missing the point of what is being said by Eloethan.

She is taking the OP at face value. In which case, many married women would not be in a position to support themselves other than through probably unskilled, possibly menial, and low-paid work.

If a woman's place is in the home looking after the family then she is not going to acquire those skills which lead to a well-paid job, and in the jobs market, would have little value to an employer.

Again - taking the OP at face value - the man, as the breadwinner would obviously have more work experience, more skills and would therefore be able to command a better wage.

In today's world of course, it's a different story. But that was not what Eloethan was commenting on. She thought - as did I because of the way the post was worded - that the OP was recommending that women stay at home after they are married.

Thanks goodness we've moved on from those times when a single woman had to either marry a meal-ticket or find suitable employment as a governess if she was better educated - or become a menial servant to the wealthy if she wasn't.

Well, if both work (apart from all the work inside a home), what happens if a working woman runs off with another person? I see no difference.

Oh yes there is, unless the woman has worked full time all of her married life. The man generally (not always) leaves the children behind or undertakes a limited amount of childcare; he probably earns a higher salary whereas she, because of child responsibilities has not pursued her career as high as the husband, or built up the same pension pot.
Divorcees are described as the new poor; a comfortable life suddenly upended, loss of home, less income, more expenditure, and much less time to earn sufficient money.
I am aware this is not entirely the case and more women are better equipped for the single life, as are men, but it is a sad reflection on our times.

The Civil Service was very traditional Monica, women weren’t even allowed to work in it once they married until the late 1940s, and according to this article senior staff could not work part time until 1979! When my mum was there she did not have any option to return to work after having a baby. Different times indeed.
www.civilservant.org.uk/women-history.html

The ony thing that limited my mother's career was being married to an army officer and being constantly on the move. never the less she was a respected teacher and for short while was the Headmistress of a small British curriculum based prep school in Malaya with a high academic reputation.

Eloethan

What happens when the man runs off with someone else and the "little woman" is left destitute, with few skills and little employment experience?

Is the OP aware that many marriages break down these days?

Well, if both work (apart from all the work inside a home), what happens if a working woman runs off with another person? I see no difference.

It was the women who would have been career women had they been younger today that I was thinking of Monica, I think that was the change the war brought, to aspiration for more women. Many did work afterwards, but it was in low paid jobs generally, and work wasn’t seen as a career .
My mum was born in the late 1920s, and she was a career girl. She wasn’t allowed to continue in her role after having me, whereas her single female friend did, and ultimately rose higher up the ranks. My mum did still work, and my dad never held her back, but it was the lost opportunity that she resented. I know many of her contemporaries felt the same.

Casdon Plenty of women in the generation above us did work, although possibly in the minority. My mother, born 1912, worked for most of my childhood, and I am the eldest of three, my MiL worked, as did the mother of my best friend.

Most of them had jobs where career progress was difficult, but my mother always made it clear that she was not happy as a stay at home mother/wife. What is more both my fathe, DH's father and my friend's father were quite happy with their wives working.

On my mother's side, there has never been, as far as I know a non-working wife. Poverty and being widowed made work essential for man(while he lived) and wife.

Eloethan

What happens when the man runs off with someone else and the "little woman" is left destitute, with few skills and little employment experience?

Is the OP aware that many marriages break down these days?

The OP came back to declare that she didn't actually agree with what-she-was-brought-up-to-believe.

Both the title of the topic and the way her post was worded gave many of us the impression that she did and - like you - we responded accordingly!

It was misleading.

What happens when the man runs off with someone else and the "little woman" is left destitute, with few skills and little employment experience?

Is the OP aware that many marriages break down these days?

Teachers had to leave when they got married. Women teachers, that is, of course men could carry on in the profession.
The ban must have been lifted by about 1950 because I remember my school friend's Mum taught at our infant school, although Jane wasn't in her class.

I’m not convinced that the women of the generation above ours, albeit some were in happy marriages, were happy with their lot in life, it was just the accepted order. Married women had to work during the Second World War, many enjoyed it, and were resentful at being forced out of roles they were very capable at when the men returned from war.
Society never really returned to what it had been before the war. My own mum worked in the civil service, and had to leave when she had me - it still rankles now at 95.

Oreo

My own parents had much the same views as the OP but still managed to have a lovely happy marriage.Horses for courses.
Back in the day it was what many people thought.

Perfectly valid.

Although there must've been times when money was short, I think many couples could manage on the man's wage allowing the mother to stay at home with the children - and there's nothing wrong with that!

Much as I value my independence, and liked my work, I would really have loved to have been able to stay at home with my son when he was an infant and toddler.

Different phases of life.

The only 'beef' I had or have with the 'way things were' is that some men were adamant that their wives should not work - even when the children were at school - or had left home in some instances... maybe because they felt it was a challenge to their status as provider, I don't know. It seems an awful shame that women who maybe had talents outside the home were deprived of fulfilling them because of the male ego. Though how often that was the case, I don't know.

I remember years back, the late Peter O'Toole was asked a question about his wife's (Siân Phillips) acting career - he responded with "she doesn't have a career, she has a job"

I believe that if there is love, respect and recognition for everything that each partner brings to the relationship it can work out perfectly, no matter how 'traditionally' or not the couple choose to live.

Oreo

My own parents had much the same views as the OP but still managed to have a lovely happy marriage.Horses for courses.
Back in the day it was what many people thought.

Indeed.

Mum stayed home, Dad worked and drove us to/ from school - fortunately the war had ended and he was home by the time we went to school. Mum didn't even drive when I was young.

Life was different in many ways. Better appliances, my favourite tumble dryers and no long hours ironing like mum.

I spent hours driving to/from, only iron linens - which is better?

Both include happy loving marriages and families.

My own parents had much the same views as the OP but still managed to have a lovely happy marriage.Horses for courses.
Back in the day it was what many people thought.

MissAdventure

People are "allowed" to post contentious views.
I'm sure we've all heard what other peoples parents bought them up to believe at some point or another.

It's also not trolling.

If others find it annoying, well, there's a saying I was bought up with, for that.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Read "Invisible Women" by Caroline Criado Perez. (or listen to it on audible) to see why women are essential to the paid workforce, and paid work is essential to women.

Tho my mum worked full time and my Dad did bits he was not involved in that never ending cooking/cleaning/childcare role. So I did grow up believing women could work but when I was first married sort of carried on without thinking much

- except my first husband and I shared childcare and cooking and its responsibilities without "discussing" it, but I did the household thinking.

DS and DiL share a lot more - initially I think my son was slower to catch on but with a very disabled child and 3 others its all hands to the pump.