Our Welfare State. Is it broken?

M0nica

Social housing was imtroduced because the poorest in society could not afford decent housing. It was built to safe hygenic standards and the rents were set at a level that those on the lowest wages could afford them.

The Conservative governments since 1979 have effectively reversed this policy, selling off council houses, many of which are now for rent in the private sector, encouraging private landlords to meet housing needs, which mean rents are set at market levels, not affordability levels.

As well as that 4.6 million homes are now in the private rental sector and 20% of households now have to rent. One of the reasons many families struggle with every day living and qualify for benefits is because rents in the private sector are so high.

We need to restructure our housing market. Encourage councils and Housing Associations to build more properties for rent, to be let at rents, quantified in terms of % of take home pay and do more to discourage private landlords and return mainly smaller first time buyer properties to the ownership market. There will always be a demand and need for a private rental sector, for the young and the intinerant, for all reasons.

But if the housing market continues to operate as it dows now it will drive more and more people into poverty.

I couldn't agree more!

Germanshepherdsmum

The government’s proposed leasehold reforms should see plenty of private landlords selling up. No use to would-be buyers though if they can’t find a deposit and meet lenders’ rightly very stringent criteria to get a mortgage. Private landlords aren’t charities - they have costs to cover and if they don’t see a profit after costs and tax, what’s the point?

Indeed! That's why the private rental market can't be relied upon to meet the genuine needs of those who can't afford to buy and the state has to intervene. The state can take risks which small private landlords can't (or won't) and it could easily be run without making a loss.

Sago

Interesting thread, I do however feel that there is now a generation that is just too entitled.

I posted on a FB cruise thread yesterday noting how I was surprised that there were so many under 16’s on the cruise we have just returned from, I was attacked immediately by the parents that remove their children from school for a cheap holiday.

One woman announced it was 5K for the cruise in the holiday period but 2K during term time so she had booked a term time break.
I was tempted to go back and say that we had Scottish camping holidays in a second hand tent because it was so expensive but it would be lost on them.

Education clearly isn’t important to them as one stupid woman asked if the sun beds in the retreat caught the sun!

Those children represented a tiny percentage of all children.

Urmstongran

There used to be an organisation called REMPLOY that offered practical skills and work to people in disablement.

I wonder if the funding was withdrawn, if not what happened?
Maybe Labour will bring it back.

Remploy and the SRJ workshops were sheltered workshops which allowed disabled people to work without the productivity pressures of outside industry. Along with disability benefits supporting the most vulnerable, these workshops were first in the sights of the coalition government because they were tax payer supported and the then Secretary of State for Empoyment - Iain Duncan Smith said that they were outdated had no place in a modern society and the tax payer shouldn’t be forced to pay for people who were basically sitting around drinking tea all day !! Which, of course was not the case, but like everything else to do with disability support, vilification comes before cuts.

They closed the workshops and pledged much extra support for those who lost their jobs as a result. I was a benefit adviser at the time and I can tell you from experience that none of the promised extra help materialised and most of the employees ended up among the long term unemployed. Employers didn’t want to know once they found out that the these people had been part of a sheltered workshop scheme, and the coalition government did nothing to try to change things.

Germanshepherdsmum

Labour began shutting down the Remploy factories, Urms.

It was the coalition government. Iain Duncan Smith pronounced the employees a bunch of tea drinking shirkers and said that Remploy and the SRJ workshops were outdated and not fit for modern society. The employees were promised extra help finding alternative employment, which never materialised.

JaneJudge

The problem appears to be that people are not paid enough through wages and have to rely on top up benefits. Rents so high working people have to rely on an element of housing benefit. Costs so high nurses and teaching staff have to rely on food banks.

I unfortunately had to spend a few hours or so in the job centre recently over a period of weeks. All the people who came in to do their face to face appointments looked ill or disabled in some way. It was quite obvious unfortunately. I was their with my own adult child who is also very disabled. I honestly don't know why any of us were there, we certainly weren't the people with the free cars and big televisions with our 'bad backs' or whatever qualifies for benefit bingo these days

If you’re referring to Motability, the cars are not ‘free’. Motability is a charity which works with the car industry to source vehicles for the very most disabled people who claim the higher rate of mobility allowance. That allowance is handed over to Motability, who in return, provide the car, assistance with any adaptations the disabled person needs to drive it, and provides affordable insurance. In most cases the disabled person is required to make an advance lump sum payment to cover excess costs but apart from the initial benefit contribution from the disabled person, it doesn’t cost the taxpayer anything.

Motability has allowed severely disabled people to work and to take part in society. Studies during the pandemic revealed that if the scheme were to close it would have a significant impact on the UK motor industry.

I think you need to look at when the closure of Remploy factories began - I have previously posted a link. It was under a Labour government.

MissAdventure

We may as well get it out of the way now, and save time later.
Acrylic nails.
Big TVs.
Latest iPhones.
Batch cooking.

Bravo. You forgot holidays abroad and ponies in the paddock.

I was just thinking that the use of the word ‘hammock’ suggests that life on benefits is a very comfortable one when most people who have experienced it or been involved in helping those struggling to cope with a life of benefits knows it’s usually anything but.

Single people are particularly badly served by the benefit system. I wonder how many people on here know (without looking it up) how much a months Universal Credit is for a single person? Housing element excluded.

Germanshepherdsmum

I think you need to look at when the closure of Remploy factories began - I have previously posted a link. It was under a Labour government.

Also look at the rationale for the closure of the factories under Labour, because there was one - which was subsequently ignored.

From the O/P

"*Big Government is no substitute for independent, responsible families & communities looking out for themselves and has grown to the point where it is now their enemy*."

What policies do you suggest will effect this?

Pammie1

JaneJudge

The problem appears to be that people are not paid enough through wages and have to rely on top up benefits. Rents so high working people have to rely on an element of housing benefit. Costs so high nurses and teaching staff have to rely on food banks.

I unfortunately had to spend a few hours or so in the job centre recently over a period of weeks. All the people who came in to do their face to face appointments looked ill or disabled in some way. It was quite obvious unfortunately. I was their with my own adult child who is also very disabled. I honestly don't know why any of us were there, we certainly weren't the people with the free cars and big televisions with our 'bad backs' or whatever qualifies for benefit bingo these days

If you’re referring to Motability, the cars are not ‘free’. Motability is a charity which works with the car industry to source vehicles for the very most disabled people who claim the higher rate of mobility allowance. That allowance is handed over to Motability, who in return, provide the car, assistance with any adaptations the disabled person needs to drive it, and provides affordable insurance. In most cases the disabled person is required to make an advance lump sum payment to cover excess costs but apart from the initial benefit contribution from the disabled person, it doesn’t cost the taxpayer anything.

Motability has allowed severely disabled people to work and to take part in society. Studies during the pandemic revealed that if the scheme were to close it would have a significant impact on the UK motor industry.

The other thing to add to that is that Motability cars are available to anyone who meets the PIP/DLA eligibility criteria whether they are working or on benefits.

PIP/DLA is not a means tested benefit.

So much misunderstanding around.

I was being sarcastic re free cars

Sago

Interesting thread, I do however feel that there is now a generation that is just too entitled.

I posted on a FB cruise thread yesterday noting how I was surprised that there were so many under 16’s on the cruise we have just returned from, I was attacked immediately by the parents that remove their children from school for a cheap holiday.

One woman announced it was 5K for the cruise in the holiday period but 2K during term time so she had booked a term time break.
I was tempted to go back and say that we had Scottish camping holidays in a second hand tent because it was so expensive but it would be lost on them.

Education clearly isn’t important to them as one stupid woman asked if the sun beds in the retreat caught the sun!

What has people on cruises got to do with the benefit system? You seem to be resentful of people who are able to do things which you (nor I) were able to do.

I am pleased that the younger elements of my family have a better lifestyle than we did when our children were small. Yes, expectations are higher now but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Education comes in many forms. My own grandchildren and great grand children sometimes take holidays in term time and I haven’t seen any signs that they’ve been educationally disadvantaged by doing so.

Grannytomany

MissAdventure

We may as well get it out of the way now, and save time later.
Acrylic nails.
Big TVs.
Latest iPhones.
Batch cooking.

Bravo. You forgot holidays abroad and ponies in the paddock.

I was just thinking that the use of the word ‘hammock’ suggests that life on benefits is a very comfortable one when most people who have experienced it or been involved in helping those struggling to cope with a life of benefits knows it’s usually anything but.

Single people are particularly badly served by the benefit system. I wonder how many people on here know (without looking it up) how much a months Universal Credit is for a single person? Housing element excluded.

£393.45 a month (£311.68 for under 25s).

I honestly think that if people receiving Universal Credit (and no additional allowances) can survive and afford all the holidays, cars, TVs and acrylic people claim they have, should be asked to be Chancellor because he/she has obviously found a magic trick for making money stretch.

I need acrylic nails.
Should I apply for Universal Credit?

Asking for a friend.

(Actually, I lie, my nails are shocking)

Imagine filling in the form (s)
"I'm disabled because my fingers don't make a delightful tapping sound when I drum them".

Grannytomany What has people on cruises got to do with the benefit system? You seem to be resentful of people who are able to do things which you (nor I) were able to do.

I am pleased that the younger elements of my family have a better lifestyle than we did when our children were small. Yes, expectations are higher now but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Education comes in many forms. My own grandchildren and great grand children sometimes take holidays in term time and I haven’t seen any signs that they’ve been educationally disadvantaged by doing so.

Agreed!

We want our children and theirs to have better than we did/do.

MissAdventure

Imagine filling in the form (s)
"I'm disabled because my fingers don't make a delightful tapping sound when I drum them".

Some of the comments remind me of Mandy 😂

missA you forgot fags, booze and tattoos.

Ah, a birthday tattoo!
I might have some meaningful lyrics done on my arm.
"Ah ga doodoodooo, push pineapple, shake the tree!" or something like that.

I threatened my AC that I would get a tattoo saying I hate tattoos round my wrist, they booked me an appointment 😱😱😱

I agree that those who can’t earn their keep should be supported, and I don’t resent people having benefit at all. I do know a few people who seem to manage very well on benefits, but they take advice and fill in the appropriate forms. I remember when my dad was unemployed in the 1960s, we were told not to tell the neighbours as he saw it as a great shame. One very nosy neighbour decided to interrogate me about why my dad didn’t go to work at the usual time, and I was reduced to saying ‘I don’t know’ repeatedly, which I found very upsetting. I was aware we were very short of money, and that being on the dole was shameful. I didn’t like that feeling! So I wouldn’t like to see people shamed for being unemployed.

I think stressing over how many people are scrounging is a way for the rest of us to focus resentment and blame. It's negative, when we should, in my opinion, be looking at ways we can make it more attractive and profitable for people to do a little work. I wonder what the amount spent on false claims is, as compared with the money lost when big companies dodge tax, and whether the effort spent trying to round up the dodgers would be better, and more profitably spent going after the 'big guys' with their obscene profits. Surely we should be creating a society that is generally kinder? As for private landlords, I've been one and it's no picnic, so please do not demonise them/us. Tenants can cost you a lot and there are few safeguards if someone won't pay and/or rips the place apart.

Someone mentioned ‘Mandy’, the character from the TV series of the same name. She will confidently take any job she’s offered, regardless of experience, because she reckons even a few hours pay before she gets sacked is better than nothing!