Our Welfare State. Is it broken?

I was a child protection & mental health social worker & helped loads of people through a tricky period & they got better, looked after their kids better & were eventually on their way back to a normal, non-state supported life.
Giving people that bit of help via sure start centres & similar did wonders & saved loads of kids coming into care.
There will always be some people who don't respond to help though. The real scroungers are those not paying their proper amount of tax despite having the means to do so

I suppose then bringing up a generation of tax avoiders, until we have generations who have never paid proper tax in their lives.

The problem is not the welfare state per se (for families) but the fact that wages and take home pay in UK for ordinary is too low when gauged against the cost of living. Too many companies are paying dividends out to shareholders and letting the tax payer top up their employees wages thereby enabling the company to make additional profit.

There is also not enough financial difference between working and not working and being on benefits for the average family.

If government thinks taking kids out of school to go on holiday at cheaper rates is a bad thing it should increase the fine payable so that going during term time becomes unprofitable. Personally, I doubt limited school absences make a lot of difference to achievement - there was plenty of it when I was at school and I recall the Blairs did it but one might think being on holiday in Tuscany and meeting the Blairs' Italian friends compensated educationally.

You should look at the tory scroungers first, awarding nice pay increases for themselves, subsided food and drink, money in offshore accounts paying no tax, PPE scandal, awarding government contracts to their pals. I'd start with that first before the benefits system. Iscit a case you'd rather go back to victorian times and have people starve, oh wait a minute that is happening now!

If governments put as much time and energy working for this country as they do squabbling with and backstabbing opposing parties and trying to ensure their place in elections as their main objective, the country could be better placed. BUT, we need parties of Collaboration, not opposition. They need "their heads banged together" to learn to think and act differently.

So. Let’s imagine that everyone who isn’t earning enough to be ineligible for any benefit whatsoever, and all the other unemployed healthy of working age are made to take jobs - (quite how this could happen - I don’t know) 🤷🏼‍♀️ but bare with me - and they must earn above the threshold for entitlement to Universal Credit, …would there be enough actual jobs to go round? Just wondered.

I’ve been on all sides of the fence, on welfare for a short while at the end of my first pregnancy, until I got full time work when my baby son was 5 months old, then single working parent for 9 years, then much later in life working for the DWP from 2009 until retiring in 2022, 9 of these years spent in various jobcentres.

Our system is broken!

BarMar

You should look at the tory scroungers first, awarding nice pay increases for themselves, subsided food and drink, money in offshore accounts paying no tax, PPE scandal, awarding government contracts to their pals. I'd start with that first before the benefits system. Iscit a case you'd rather go back to victorian times and have people starve, oh wait a minute that is happening now!

👏👏👏👏

I have just read this on the BBC news online.
The number of monthly new claimants in England and Wales where the main condition claimed was anxiety and depression has soared from an average of 2,200 per month in 2019 to 5,300 a month last year.

Therefore the figures have more than doubled in four years.

Interesting that ‘stress’ and ‘depression’ were stated as being the main conditions which were claimed for, which like the old one, backache, can neither be proved or disproved.

Yes of course those genuinely in need should be helped, and indeed they are, but there are clearly too many people milking the system.

Nowadays people never seem to say that they are feeling down, sad, miserable or unhappy, which of course are part of the normal ups and downs of life.

It seems to me that there is now too much emphasis on mental health, to the point that people are convinced that any sad feelings they might are a sign of being mentally ill, meaning they are unable to work.

Who gets to decide who is milking the system, then?
A physiotherapist decides that someone isn't really depressed?
A job coach decides that because he felt better going to work when his 97 year old granny died, that everybody else must be the same?

Great system.
It's working a treat.

There may be truth in what you are saying, but turning sadness and depression into a successful disability or PIP claim is not so easy.

I would think that the current proposals to change the criteria for a successful unfit to workUC or PIP claim are unlikely to go through before the next election, so they seem to me to be unlikely to happen, but I do think it is worthwhile to discuss whether or not genuine mental health problems cause additional expense which would justify enhanced payments.

I am absolutely not knocking anyone with MH problems, which include two of my relatives who have been unfit for work for many years with serious illnesses, but I cannot actually see what extra expense they have incurred through their illnesses.
Yes, they would have struggled to live on basic unemployment benefit- which is not sufficient for anyone to be fair.
I would appreciate genuine answers to this question from those personally affected.
What additional costs are incurred through MH disability compared with a healthy unemployed person?

Keepingquiet.
I’m really not being argumentative, but can you think of anyone who can sort things out?

My reply was initially to JenniferEccles, but MissA makes very good points about who decides.

spabbygirl

I was a child protection & mental health social worker & helped loads of people through a tricky period & they got better, looked after their kids better & were eventually on their way back to a normal, non-state supported life.
Giving people that bit of help via sure start centres & similar did wonders & saved loads of kids coming into care.
There will always be some people who don't respond to help though. The real scroungers are those not paying their proper amount of tax despite having the means to do so

This!

Mental health issues.
Taxis to and from places, if anxiety makes it hard/impossible to catch public transport.
Taking someone with you, for support on trips out, so paying their fare/lunch/expenses.

Shopping online = more expensive.

My own experience is that someone with depression - even severe depression - is much better off working than sitting at home. It should not be a condition which triggers an entitlement to benefits.

Cabbie21

There may be truth in what you are saying, but turning sadness and depression into a successful disability or PIP claim is not so easy.

I would think that the current proposals to change the criteria for a successful unfit to workUC or PIP claim are unlikely to go through before the next election, so they seem to me to be unlikely to happen, but I do think it is worthwhile to discuss whether or not genuine mental health problems cause additional expense which would justify enhanced payments.

I am absolutely not knocking anyone with MH problems, which include two of my relatives who have been unfit for work for many years with serious illnesses, but I cannot actually see what extra expense they have incurred through their illnesses.
Yes, they would have struggled to live on basic unemployment benefit- which is not sufficient for anyone to be fair.
I would appreciate genuine answers to this question from those personally affected.
What additional costs are incurred through MH disability compared with a healthy unemployed person?

Lots of help for MH issues can come at a cost to the patient. Often anxiety can prevent people using public transport for instance, so GP appts, hospitals or just visiting friends and relatives might incur taxi fares, shopping can be hard so having shopping delivered incurs delivery costs, well being treatments such as massages cost money. There’s lots of things that incur additional costs. MH conditions are sometimes in addition to other long term conditions, ie things like Crohns, fibromyalgia, ME and many other long term conditions can lead to MH conditions and can require different, and often more expensive, dietary requirements. I’m sure there’s more but anyone not working due to either MH, physical, or both, conditions might have their heating on more, perhaps use their electronic equipment more, hiking up energy costs.

Germanshepherdsmum

My own experience is that someone with depression - even severe depression - is much better off working than sitting at home. It should not be a condition which triggers an entitlement to benefits.

Whilst I agree in the case of depression or anxiety, even severe cases, work, with good support, almost always improves these conditions, but there are many other MH issues which are not so easy to manage, and to be fair, not everyone has the sheer grit to get through these very difficult times.

When my daughter died, I was depressed, obviously.

Some time to grieve would have been appreciated, considering I literally couldn't string a coherent sentence together.

I didnt much appreciate being told thay someone's granny dying was in any way similar to my own experience.

I'm not saying I should have been written off from ever working, but given some time to grieve.

Who do I think is milking the system?
Probably these who refuse to accept the advice from their psychiatrist that maybe returning to work, if only part time, might be good for their mental health, rather than sitting at home brooding.

A psychiatrist, Dr. Max Pemberton has written about this recently in the Mail.
Incidentally, in his articles for the paper, he has always come across as a lovely caring doctor.

I speak as a lone parent. 42 years ago I was left with two children under two when my husband decided the rigours of parenting were a bit too much for him. It took me nearly two years to get any maintenance. My sister lived 400 miles away and my brother lived in the US. I had no one but good friends to call on for help.
I am not someone who handles stress well, so I struggled. Without help from the State I don't know what I would have done. Both children were ill and needed a lot of medical intervention. Eventually, after many court appearances( he would fail to turn up at court) to try to get £ from my husband, I got an earnings attachment order. The amount paid was laughable, but at least it was something.

When my younger daughter was 5 and at school full time I went back to work. BIG mistake. I should have remained on benefit as the stress was enormous. Paying child minders and bus fares ( no car) took so much of my wages.

I know there are loafers in this country who take the money and smoke and drink it, but there are an awful lot of desperate folk who have to rely on benefits. The rise in the need for food banks is so depressing. There are hungry children in this country and it's shameful.

We have a government that is happy to "let the bodies pile up" and looks after its rich donors before the hungry and desperate of this country.

I fail to see what is to be gained by sending someone to work 2 months earlier, when they are crying uncontrollably in the job centre, at the shops, at home, and trying to sort out counselling for themselves.

Is that 2 months of benefit money SO important??

I don’t think one can generalise, GSM, as depression affects people differently. Yes, there is huge value in working but some jobs are so stressful or dangerous that would put the employee or others at risk.
One of my relatives was unable to leave the house for four years, but that was more than depression.

Thanks MissA.
Not sure that paying someone else’s expenses to accompany is a valid cost to the disabled person, but that takes us into a wider issue re carers.

I always pay of someone takes me somewhere, because I know I'm a pain in the arse to accommodate.

I wouldn't dream of banging someone's car around with my walking frame, having them move all their stuff to fit it in, park close so I dont have far to walk, and expect them to lift my frame in and out.