Our Welfare State. Is it broken?

spabbygirl

I was a child protection & mental health social worker & helped loads of people through a tricky period & they got better, looked after their kids better & were eventually on their way back to a normal, non-state supported life.
Giving people that bit of help via sure start centres & similar did wonders & saved loads of kids coming into care.
There will always be some people who don't respond to help though. The real scroungers are those not paying their proper amount of tax despite having the means to do so

This!

My reply was initially to JenniferEccles, but MissA makes very good points about who decides.

Keepingquiet.
I’m really not being argumentative, but can you think of anyone who can sort things out?

There may be truth in what you are saying, but turning sadness and depression into a successful disability or PIP claim is not so easy.

I would think that the current proposals to change the criteria for a successful unfit to workUC or PIP claim are unlikely to go through before the next election, so they seem to me to be unlikely to happen, but I do think it is worthwhile to discuss whether or not genuine mental health problems cause additional expense which would justify enhanced payments.

I am absolutely not knocking anyone with MH problems, which include two of my relatives who have been unfit for work for many years with serious illnesses, but I cannot actually see what extra expense they have incurred through their illnesses.
Yes, they would have struggled to live on basic unemployment benefit- which is not sufficient for anyone to be fair.
I would appreciate genuine answers to this question from those personally affected.
What additional costs are incurred through MH disability compared with a healthy unemployed person?

Who gets to decide who is milking the system, then?
A physiotherapist decides that someone isn't really depressed?
A job coach decides that because he felt better going to work when his 97 year old granny died, that everybody else must be the same?

Great system.
It's working a treat.

I have just read this on the BBC news online.
The number of monthly new claimants in England and Wales where the main condition claimed was anxiety and depression has soared from an average of 2,200 per month in 2019 to 5,300 a month last year.

Therefore the figures have more than doubled in four years.

Interesting that ‘stress’ and ‘depression’ were stated as being the main conditions which were claimed for, which like the old one, backache, can neither be proved or disproved.

Yes of course those genuinely in need should be helped, and indeed they are, but there are clearly too many people milking the system.

Nowadays people never seem to say that they are feeling down, sad, miserable or unhappy, which of course are part of the normal ups and downs of life.

It seems to me that there is now too much emphasis on mental health, to the point that people are convinced that any sad feelings they might are a sign of being mentally ill, meaning they are unable to work.

BarMar

You should look at the tory scroungers first, awarding nice pay increases for themselves, subsided food and drink, money in offshore accounts paying no tax, PPE scandal, awarding government contracts to their pals. I'd start with that first before the benefits system. Iscit a case you'd rather go back to victorian times and have people starve, oh wait a minute that is happening now!

👏👏👏👏

I’ve been on all sides of the fence, on welfare for a short while at the end of my first pregnancy, until I got full time work when my baby son was 5 months old, then single working parent for 9 years, then much later in life working for the DWP from 2009 until retiring in 2022, 9 of these years spent in various jobcentres.

Our system is broken!

So. Let’s imagine that everyone who isn’t earning enough to be ineligible for any benefit whatsoever, and all the other unemployed healthy of working age are made to take jobs - (quite how this could happen - I don’t know) 🤷🏼‍♀️ but bare with me - and they must earn above the threshold for entitlement to Universal Credit, …would there be enough actual jobs to go round? Just wondered.

If governments put as much time and energy working for this country as they do squabbling with and backstabbing opposing parties and trying to ensure their place in elections as their main objective, the country could be better placed. BUT, we need parties of Collaboration, not opposition. They need "their heads banged together" to learn to think and act differently.

You should look at the tory scroungers first, awarding nice pay increases for themselves, subsided food and drink, money in offshore accounts paying no tax, PPE scandal, awarding government contracts to their pals. I'd start with that first before the benefits system. Iscit a case you'd rather go back to victorian times and have people starve, oh wait a minute that is happening now!

If government thinks taking kids out of school to go on holiday at cheaper rates is a bad thing it should increase the fine payable so that going during term time becomes unprofitable. Personally, I doubt limited school absences make a lot of difference to achievement - there was plenty of it when I was at school and I recall the Blairs did it but one might think being on holiday in Tuscany and meeting the Blairs' Italian friends compensated educationally.

The problem is not the welfare state per se (for families) but the fact that wages and take home pay in UK for ordinary is too low when gauged against the cost of living. Too many companies are paying dividends out to shareholders and letting the tax payer top up their employees wages thereby enabling the company to make additional profit.

There is also not enough financial difference between working and not working and being on benefits for the average family.

I suppose then bringing up a generation of tax avoiders, until we have generations who have never paid proper tax in their lives.

I was a child protection & mental health social worker & helped loads of people through a tricky period & they got better, looked after their kids better & were eventually on their way back to a normal, non-state supported life.
Giving people that bit of help via sure start centres & similar did wonders & saved loads of kids coming into care.
There will always be some people who don't respond to help though. The real scroungers are those not paying their proper amount of tax despite having the means to do so

Someone mentioned ‘Mandy’, the character from the TV series of the same name. She will confidently take any job she’s offered, regardless of experience, because she reckons even a few hours pay before she gets sacked is better than nothing!

I think stressing over how many people are scrounging is a way for the rest of us to focus resentment and blame. It's negative, when we should, in my opinion, be looking at ways we can make it more attractive and profitable for people to do a little work. I wonder what the amount spent on false claims is, as compared with the money lost when big companies dodge tax, and whether the effort spent trying to round up the dodgers would be better, and more profitably spent going after the 'big guys' with their obscene profits. Surely we should be creating a society that is generally kinder? As for private landlords, I've been one and it's no picnic, so please do not demonise them/us. Tenants can cost you a lot and there are few safeguards if someone won't pay and/or rips the place apart.

I agree that those who can’t earn their keep should be supported, and I don’t resent people having benefit at all. I do know a few people who seem to manage very well on benefits, but they take advice and fill in the appropriate forms. I remember when my dad was unemployed in the 1960s, we were told not to tell the neighbours as he saw it as a great shame. One very nosy neighbour decided to interrogate me about why my dad didn’t go to work at the usual time, and I was reduced to saying ‘I don’t know’ repeatedly, which I found very upsetting. I was aware we were very short of money, and that being on the dole was shameful. I didn’t like that feeling! So I wouldn’t like to see people shamed for being unemployed.

I threatened my AC that I would get a tattoo saying I hate tattoos round my wrist, they booked me an appointment 😱😱😱

Ah, a birthday tattoo!
I might have some meaningful lyrics done on my arm.
"Ah ga doodoodooo, push pineapple, shake the tree!" or something like that.

missA you forgot fags, booze and tattoos.

MissAdventure

Imagine filling in the form (s)
"I'm disabled because my fingers don't make a delightful tapping sound when I drum them".

Some of the comments remind me of Mandy 😂

Grannytomany What has people on cruises got to do with the benefit system? You seem to be resentful of people who are able to do things which you (nor I) were able to do.

I am pleased that the younger elements of my family have a better lifestyle than we did when our children were small. Yes, expectations are higher now but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Education comes in many forms. My own grandchildren and great grand children sometimes take holidays in term time and I haven’t seen any signs that they’ve been educationally disadvantaged by doing so.

Agreed!

We want our children and theirs to have better than we did/do.

Imagine filling in the form (s)
"I'm disabled because my fingers don't make a delightful tapping sound when I drum them".

I need acrylic nails.
Should I apply for Universal Credit?

Asking for a friend.

(Actually, I lie, my nails are shocking)