Disabled Auriol Grey has manslaughter conviction overturned

Just recently I have started being overtaken by individuals riding scooters on the pavement. It has not been a problem so far but it’s a bit disconcerting to have a wheeled device whizzing by from behind.
I did think there’s a narrow margin between us and I only have to change direction slightly for an accident to happen.

Shared areas are rarely safe. Cyclists don’t tend to use bells to warn pedestrians, and if the cyclist is coming from behind, the pedestrian won’t necessarily know which way to step to one side. If the pavement is too narrow , the cyclist should get off and walk, where they have more control.

The wide prom down by the sea is a shared pedestrian-cyclist area, with a couple of signs saying that cyclists should give way to pedestrians. On several occasions loud foul language has been used (not by me!) by cyclists to pedestrians or by pedestrians to cyclists when one has been thoughtless towards the other.
Cyclists tend to be younger and fitter on average, and though coming off your bike is unpleasant, a pedestrian can break a hip if hit by a bike.
I think I've mentioned before my concern regarding escooters (illegal round here) and ebikes, particularly when they share areas with pedestrians.

pinkquartz

I am horrified by the judgemental attitude of many posters who seem to want people locked up just for being disabled.
All the comments abouts about not allowed out on their own, where is the compassion? it might be you when you are older causing an accident because you have a brain condition or other disabilty.

Some of the comments surprised me too. People commenting on why she didn’t stay around, why she didn’t seem bothered etc. even the DM described her as “childlike” and her behaviour on that day was very much like a young child. She didn’t think she had done anything wrong.

I am horrified by the judgemental attitude of many posters who seem to want people locked up just for being disabled.
All the comments abouts about not allowed out on their own, where is the compassion? it might be you when you are older causing an accident because you have a brain condition or other disabilty.

I think the right verdict was reached today. It was an accidental death.

I do not defend the defendants behaviour, but all she said was 'Get off the f*cking path', then she waved her arm. Hardly a tirade and as much as most people will have heard someone in the street say when someone has accidentally got in their way.

As for saying someone up thread saying she shouldn't be out alone words fail me.

Oreo

Kate1949

Ms Grey was aggressive and used the F word. She apparently carried on to get her shopping after the incident. Whilst I agree that her problems made her the way she is, I agree that maybe she shouldn't be out alone.

An autistic person shouldn’t be out alone?😲
Or a half blind person?
The real culprit was the council for allowing dual use with no markings, that’s if they really did allow it.
Cyclists, unless kids, shouldn’t be on the pavement.

It was a shared pavement, obvious from the video, and was too narrow to serve both purposes.

Gray was very aggressive; had that been a child she berated who was subsequently killed would you all feel differently?
All Gray had to do was stand still whilst the cyclist passed.

Such a sad situation with no winners.
That sums it up

I have been known to be abusive to the e scooters who go on the pavements where I live. They go at speed and without sound then shout just as they get behind you to move. Often I feel off balanced but mainly feel very angry with the lack of care these riders show to older people.

I didn't know cyclists aren't subject to speeding laws. That's quite a scary thought.

I reported an e bike to the police. It was a delivery driver for a well known company, cycling faster than vehicles but on the pavement. I didn't hear anything from the police.

Apart from children, and then with supervision, I don't think cyclists should be on the pavement. and certainly not electric scooters. When we drive we must give cyclists a wide berth, if the pavement is narrow then cyclists can't do the same for a pedestrian. Pedestrian safety on pavements should be paramount if a person was aged, infirm how safe are they expected to feel if a cyclist looks wobbly or worse still going too fast. In any event, SOME, are a law unto themselves, a woman died recently crossing the road when a cyclist ploughed into her riding at nearly 30 miles in a 20 mile an hour zone, then I read cyclists are not bound by the same speed restrictions as motorists, so that man wasn't prosecuted. I often used to go to Richmond Park and it's full of really aggressive lycra clad cyclists (99% men) who think they own the place, they career around like lunatics whilst drivers crawl along behind them, overtake them at your peril. Having said that, I know such cyclists are a minority, I'm not suggesting anyone on this forum would behave in such a way.

Going back to Auriol Grey, this was a catalogue of unfortunate events she had a gamut of issues and I believe visually impaired, I agree she behaved in an abusive, aggressive manner, no doubt part and parcel of not really understanding how to interact. The other poor lady panicked and fell into the path of an oncoming car, which happened in a nano second, ultimately, I don't think she should have been on the pavement. I feel sorry all round for her, her family and the poor woman driving the car. Having said all that I just don't think Auriol Grey should have had a custodial sentence.

Such a sad situation with no winners.

As an older cyclist myself and a car driver, who has watched many foolhardy cyclists weaving through traffic at their peril, I would always recommend reverting to being a pedestrian, get off my bike and walk, rather than try to compete with cars

There's a footpath near me which is also known as a cycle path, on the National cycle route, and a bridle path. So chances are you'll meet a horse or a cyclist if you risk walking.

All road and footpath users should respect eachother.

Aveline

Just thinking about her in prison reminded me of autistic prisoners I'd worked with. Their families were shocked and horrified. However, especially in one case, this individual was very happy there! There were rules and structures. His cell was very plain. He liked the very plain food and had a job in the library. Fortunately, the other men saw that he was a bit different and left him alone. He was a very nice man and the officers liked him and did their best to look after him. Amazingly, he looks back on his time there as we might of a lovely holiday. Another man that I met wanted to reoffend so he could go back to prison. Another had never been to prison but really wanted to go so that he wouldn't have to worry about his flat, bills, shopping and social expectations.
Unpredictable everyday life can be scary.

I did wonder if the structures in place, which in her case appear to have been benign, had been in some respects positive. But if she likes to get out and about then not so.

We don't really know enough about her life long term to know how safe she/the public are. Although far from ideal, in prison they would have got to know and observe her to some extent and must have judged her not to be "a danger to self and others".

4 days ago a speeding cyclist knocked over and killed a 81 year old lady in regents park. Although he was doing 29 mph he could not be prosecuted as cyclists are not subject to speeding laws. The speed limit was 20mph. More pedestrians are injured by cyclists than the other way .

Just thinking about her in prison reminded me of autistic prisoners I'd worked with. Their families were shocked and horrified. However, especially in one case, this individual was very happy there! There were rules and structures. His cell was very plain. He liked the very plain food and had a job in the library. Fortunately, the other men saw that he was a bit different and left him alone. He was a very nice man and the officers liked him and did their best to look after him. Amazingly, he looks back on his time there as we might of a lovely holiday. Another man that I met wanted to reoffend so he could go back to prison. Another had never been to prison but really wanted to go so that he wouldn't have to worry about his flat, bills, shopping and social expectations.
Unpredictable everyday life can be scary.

MissAdventure

I would class it as an accidental death.

Absolutely. But now we have a culture where there is no room for accidents someone always has to pay.

I'd like to say it is unbelievable but I'm going to struggle to be convincing

That sounds distinctly unsatisfactory Primrose. I’m amazed that she has been released without a support package which will keep the public safe.

I've just read the old thread and it seems we went over a lot of what is being discussed on there.

I wonder if assessments have been made whilst she was in prison given the family have thanked them for 'looking after' her.

All this publicity must be really difficult for the victims family though on top of such an awful event and loss of life for their much loved family member.

Wyllow3

Cossy

JaneJudge

We can't stop people with disabilities walking amongst us but we can campaign for proper care and support of people. The opposite has been happening and continues to do so because of austerity. 'Locking people away' costs a lot more money than people with disabilities living in their own communities in supported or assisted living arrangements

👏👏👏👏👏 Probably not enough services to give each person in supported living a person on a 1-1 basis.

This.

I'm expecting an assessment has been done before she was release as to whether she needs 1 2 1 for going out and about?

My guess it that it will be difficult to provide this more than weekly/twice weekly unless there is private money.

The report said although she has been out of prison quite a while a support package has not been put in place. Neighbours and friends are supporting her in the meantime.

Re autism: a lot depends on the underlying level of learning disability. I've worked with people with autism who have severe learning disability and also met many who had average or above average IQ and leading very normal lives. However, if stressed, maybe by change, the autism comes back sharply into focus.

IMO cyclists should not be allowed on pavements and shared pavements are a recipe for disaster. Where I live cyclists and E scooters regularly ride on the pavements , often at speed causing pedestrians to jump out of their way.
If you’re not confident cycling on the road , which I understand was the reason for the cyclist to be on the pavement, then you shouldn’t be cycling.

Cossy

JaneJudge

We can't stop people with disabilities walking amongst us but we can campaign for proper care and support of people. The opposite has been happening and continues to do so because of austerity. 'Locking people away' costs a lot more money than people with disabilities living in their own communities in supported or assisted living arrangements

👏👏👏👏👏 Probably not enough services to give each person in supported living a person on a 1-1 basis.

This.

I'm expecting an assessment has been done before she was release as to whether she needs 1 2 1 for going out and about?

My guess it that it will be difficult to provide this more than weekly/twice weekly unless there is private money.

Is accidental killing not the same as manslaughter then ?

I'm not saying Ms Grey was guilty of anything apart from being aggressive. She obviously didn't realise the lady would die.