Disabled Auriol Grey has manslaughter conviction overturned

I meant sink or swim

Unfortunately because of funding thresholds some people are left to sink and swim and in this case it has caused the death of another person

I don’t think there is any comparison at all between the two cases though maddyone, the Nottingham murderer was a paranoid schizophrenic, and he’s been sentenced to detention in a high security mental health hospital on an indefinite basis, which is as serious as it gets.

Yes, she is independent and able to walk around and get on with her day, but she suffers from a disability that renders her unable to properly assess risk, or see and feel the consequences of her actions.
When compared with the case in Nottingham, where a person deliberately murdered three other people, and then ran into a queue of people waiting at a bus stop in a van, who was then found guilty of attempted murder at the bus stop, but of having mental health problems with regard to the three murders he committed, then I find that these two cases and punishments don’t marry up. He’s not guilty of murder because he has mental health issues (although guilty of attempted murder) but she was guilty and sent to prison for a year.
She’s has a diagnosed mental health condition which we know rendered her incapable of assessing the danger to both herself and the cyclist.

She seems pretty independent, walking around and causing chaos.

Oreo

Kate1949

Ms Grey was aggressive and used the F word. She apparently carried on to get her shopping after the incident. Whilst I agree that her problems made her the way she is, I agree that maybe she shouldn't be out alone.

An autistic person shouldn’t be out alone?😲
Or a half blind person?
The real culprit was the council for allowing dual use with no markings, that’s if they really did allow it.
Cyclists, unless kids, shouldn’t be on the pavement.

Probably one of the hundreds of thousands who can't get the care and support she actually needs to live as much of an independent life as she can?

I am one of the others ...

As a pedestrian and sometime cyclist, if a cyclist is sharing space with pedestrians, they should always, always, always, give way to pedestrians.

I always stopped my bike and waited for pedestrians to pass me, when in a share space.

But as I said up thread, there should not be any official shared spaces, they should always be clearly marked lanes.

Yes, lots of these people enjoy routine, or have at least responded best to routines, and that is their security blanket, in a way.

Callistemon21

It's strange behaviour to continue with your day, shopping etc as if nothing has happened.

unless you have an impairment that causes you to react in that way. It isn't an excuse, it's an explanation

It's strange behaviour to continue with your day, shopping etc as if nothing has happened.

Is it actually irrational, though,to tell someone who looks as if they are going to run you down to "F off"?
Particularly if you feel they shouldnt be there in the first place.

I'm not saying that is how anyone felt, but it really doesnt seem too unreasonable to me.

Callistemon21

^Six of one half a dozen of the other in this instance^.
That's exactly what I quoted from another poster, Freya

Such a sad situation with no winners.
^That sums it up^

Except that I will add that a much-loved wife, mother, grandmother died horribly because o another woman's irrational behaviour.

Whether or not someone should be punished if their irrational behaviour causes the accidental death of another person is not up to us to judge.

Six of one half a dozen of the other in this instance.
That's exactly what I quoted from another poster, Freya

Such a sad situation with no winners.
That sums it up

Callistemon21

Oreo

Kate1949

Ms Grey was aggressive and used the F word. She apparently carried on to get her shopping after the incident. Whilst I agree that her problems made her the way she is, I agree that maybe she shouldn't be out alone.

An autistic person shouldn’t be out alone?😲
Or a half blind person?
The real culprit was the council for allowing dual use with no markings, that’s if they really did allow it.
Cyclists, unless kids, shouldn’t be on the pavement.

It was a shared pavement, obvious from the video, and was too narrow to serve both purposes.

Gray was very aggressive; had that been a child she berated who was subsequently killed would you all feel differently?
All Gray had to do was stand still whilst the cyclist passed.

Such a sad situation with no winners.
That sums it up

Really, all the cyclist had to do was get off and push her bike. Six of one half a dozen of the other in this instance.

Yes, I'd move out of the way to save getting knocked down, these days.

When I was little, people would actually get off their bikes and stand still to let people pass.

I agree with you Miss A especially as that path in particular didn't even look like a shared pathway. Unfortunately on the ring road it tends to be a free for all. Quite a few people seem to lack manners these days.
I tend to give way to save the dog and myself from being run over.

On what I consider a path, I always expect that someone on a bike or scooter should "give way" to me.

Someone on another thread spoke of people with autism as being able to understand rules, and I'd add that I have supported lots of autistic people who have no qualms when it comes to others breaking rules.

They tell them!

I actually live in the same town as Auriol Grey and at the time of the incident the path was not marked as a shared path. I have used this particular path many times in the past to take my dog to to the vets. It is very deceptive, the pathway is not very wide and you are very close to the traffic.
It needs people to show consideration and allow others to pass ie scooters, bicycles and pushchairs.
I don't think that Ms Grey would have been able to show this consideration due to her conditions. It is a very sad situation for all concerned.

This morning I walked into my town centre. A lady coming the other way on a mobility scooter actually stopped still to let me pass. I think she must have been reading this thread. There was room for both of us, but she showed consideration and care.

I am glad that Auriol has been released from prison. The wrong place for her, but sadly she seems not to be getting the support she needs o live in the community.
My greatest sympathy is for the family of the lady who died, and for the driver, who was involved.

Poppyred

I’m disgusted, that poor woman’s family. It was a shared path, if the woman didn’t know that, then she shouldn’t have been walking there alone!!

Oh come on Poppyred, whilst I feel for the lady and her family, I’m not disgusted that a disabled person panicked when she saw the cyclist riding towards her. As for her not being allowed to walk there alone…

I’m disgusted, that poor woman’s family. It was a shared path, if the woman didn’t know that, then she shouldn’t have been walking there alone!!

It's as easy to say that someone's dementia doesn't give them the right to.... whatever they do.

The point is, that they just do, and that impulsiveness can be a trait of some learning disabilities.

Someone with tourette's could have shouted "Knickers!" and frightened a passerby.
A loud sneeze could do the same...

BlueBelle

I personally don’t think any of her illnesses give her the right to be so aggressive I remember watching what happened she was very unfeeling about the whole situation
I m on the fence with this one but if I was the old ladies family I don’t think i d feel as if her death had been acknowledged
How long has she served ?

She would come across as unfeeling and even in empathetic, it’s fairly common in autism.

Monica in theory you are right. In practice the pavement I use narrows and it is impossible to divide into two. Don’t know what to think!

Shared space never works. If a path is to be used by pedestrians and those on bikes/scooters/disabled buggies etc, there should be a white line down the centre of the path and frequent signs painted on the carriageway to make it clear which side is for which group.