Realism V Idealism

Too true Oreo.

I guess I don’t know, and have never acted for, ‘small business owners’ Glorianny, other than to buy groceries from them (and I haven’t noticed anyone who might be an asylum seeker in their shops). I wonder how much you know about them and their motives for wishing to employ asylum seekers?

A bit like a bait and switch do you mean Oreo?

Often, threads are started cos posters didn’t get the response they were really hoping for on a previous thread.
Y’know, idealists good/ realists bad kind of thing.It’s great to have ideals while keeping in touch with reality imo.

Glorianny

Germanshepherdsmum

Remind me, Glorianny, weren’t you a teacher? If so you probably didn’t employ people. I did, and I was a director of a construction company which employed people - a great many. I also acted for companies which were very significant employers, My experience is a great deal wider than you imagine. Don’t imagine that I just sat behind a desk preparing documents - you couldn’t be more wrong.

Well you seem to be singularly unaware that the employment of asylum seekers is not only viable but highly desirable for many small business owners.

Highly desirable? Doubtful, but if any small businesses really are dying to employ them it’s so they can pay as little as possible for maximum work.They know nothing about the asylum seekers yet are happy to employ them, hmmmm.

Just to clarify for anybody in doubt, being liberal and being an idealist are not the same thing.

Cossy

growstuff

Idealism is shutting one's eyes and thinking problems will disappear. Realism is accepting the current situation and looking for solutions.

It absolutely isn’t shutting one’s eyes and hoping things will disappear!

It isn’t. It’s recognising reality. Something the ‘bleeding hearts liberals’ are unable to do.

fancythat

When I first came on this forum, I was surprised quite how much it felt like being 17 again, and back at school doing debates.
And I have to say, much of it was[and still is to a certain extent] in the Politics Section.

Yes, pie in the sky.

Part of the reason I am not on it so much nowadays.
I really cannot be bothered to debate like that.

That is exactly why a lot of us like Gransnet though, fancythat, not the sixth form element, but to debate beliefs and ideas in a free space. Politics is a fascinating subject if you are interested in it, but for those who don’t want to enter the fray there’s so much else discussed on Gransnet that it’s easy to avoid it.

Germanshepherdsmum

Remind me, Glorianny, weren’t you a teacher? If so you probably didn’t employ people. I did, and I was a director of a construction company which employed people - a great many. I also acted for companies which were very significant employers, My experience is a great deal wider than you imagine. Don’t imagine that I just sat behind a desk preparing documents - you couldn’t be more wrong.

Well you seem to be singularly unaware that the employment of asylum seekers is not only viable but highly desirable for many small business owners.

Casdon

Namsnanny

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I don't know, you raised the question.

I certainly don’t think it is, I’m with Joseann, and interested to hear what Cossy had in mind.

That's why I asked her

Joseann

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I'd be up for that .... exploring the ideas of Kant or Plato, but too much personal, high horse, stuff gets in the way.

*too much high horse stuff gets in the way^ ....

Well, that's where it all get's murky.
Your high horse might be my donkey. Then the brickbats begin.

Namsnanny

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I don't know, you raised the question.

I certainly don’t think it is, I’m with Joseann, and interested to hear what Cossy had in mind.

But I'm hoping Cossy could explain her thoughts.

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I don't know, you raised the question.

When I first came on this forum, I was surprised quite how much it felt like being 17 again, and back at school doing debates.
And I have to say, much of it was[and still is to a certain extent] in the Politics Section.

Yes, pie in the sky.

Part of the reason I am not on it so much nowadays.
I really cannot be bothered to debate like that.

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I'd be up for that .... exploring the ideas of Kant or Plato, but too much personal, high horse, stuff gets in the way.

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Remind me, Glorianny, weren’t you a teacher? If so you probably didn’t employ people. I did, and I was a director of a construction company which employed people - a great many. I also acted for companies which were very significant employers, My experience is a great deal wider than you imagine. Don’t imagine that I just sat behind a desk preparing documents - you couldn’t be more wrong.

Interesting, I think I must lean towards Idealist because that is closest to Romanticist. I'm certainly not particularly rational, but come from a more spontaneous, imaginative angle. Some people would be surprised how often that can work and create original, effective alternatives. It isn't dismissing things, it's just acting on one's emotions.

www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/

Casdon

Where would we be without the Martin Luther Kings of this world?

Realists are usually pessimistic about the possibility of radical systemic reform, and that can lead to passivity.

Having both traits is preferable.

I agree, both traits with a touch of pragmatism - perfect.

Where would we be without vision and optimism, which needs to be balanced with a dose of realism.

Well they are disappearing. 21.000 asylum seekers have disappeared apparently. I don’t know if that’s realism or idealism since some people presumably want them to disappear!

It's funny how GSM whose experiences were limited I believe to a solicitors office and a certain area of law knows how every aspect of the economy works. Many of the small businesses where I live have signed up to a request that they be permitted to employ asylum seekers while their applications are processed. They see I believe a group of people willing to work who are reasonably certain to stay in the area and to turn up regularly for work. At any rate I think they probably know more about employing these people than GSM does.
It certainly isn't idealism. It's very practical realism which solves many problems.

Where would we be without the Martin Luther Kings of this world?

Realists are usually pessimistic about the possibility of radical systemic reform, and that can lead to passivity.

Having both traits is preferable.

growstuff

Idealism is shutting one's eyes and thinking problems will disappear. Realism is accepting the current situation and looking for solutions.

It absolutely isn’t shutting one’s eyes and hoping things will disappear!