Realism V Idealism

I don't think it's an either/or too.
Can just be a way of attempting to dismiss someone or their ideas when its not backed by detail: otherwise its just a subjective statement according to opinion.

Idealists have their place but some of their suggestions are hopelessly impractical. For instance some of the suggestions about how unskilled immigrants can earn a living, doing jobs which are so poorly paid that they will be reliant on benefits and/or have a side hustle in the black economy. I believe you suggested they might be gardeners, for instance, despite lacking horticultural knowledge or tools. And if they’re paid cash in hand do you believe they would declare their earnings?

I am mostly a pragmatist with aspirations for an ideal solution to the world's problems.

Agree with you GSM.
It’s nice to be idealistic but often hopelessly impractical.

The NHS was an ideal. Anything is possible if there is the political will.

Germanshepherdsmum

Idealists have their place but some of their suggestions are hopelessly impractical. For instance some of the suggestions about how unskilled immigrants can earn a living, doing jobs which are so poorly paid that they will be reliant on benefits and/or have a side hustle in the black economy. I believe you suggested they might be gardeners, for instance, despite lacking horticultural knowledge or tools. And if they’re paid cash in hand do you believe they would declare their earnings?

Ouch! I wonder who that's aimed at!

Maybe a little more research about what's already going on in the world is needed by some GNers.

It's not idealism to get off your backside and help people, which is some people are already dong in quite innovative ways.

Idealism is shutting one's eyes and thinking problems will disappear. Realism is accepting the current situation and looking for solutions.

growstuff

“Germanshepherdsmum
Idealists have their place but some of their suggestions are hopelessly impractical. For instance some of the suggestions about how unskilled immigrants can earn a living, doing jobs which are so poorly paid that they will be reliant on benefits and/or have a side hustle in the black economy. I believe you suggested they might be gardeners, for instance, despite lacking horticultural knowledge or tools. And if they’re paid cash in hand do you believe they would declare their earnings?
Ouch! I wonder who that's aimed at! hmm

Maybe a little more research about what's already going on in the world is needed by some GNers.

It's not idealism to get off your backside and help people, which is some people are already dong in quite innovative ways.”

Me, it was aimed at me. Whilst I respect GSMs opinions, albeit they are sometimes very sharp! My suggestions were that asylum seekers be given menial work, to occupy them, whilst they were waiting for their cases to be heard. I don’t recall suggesting that they all be armed with power tools and let loose in Kew Gardens. This work would be monitored, they’re meant to be monitored anyhow, and it wouldn’t matter if they were paid cash in hand because 1) they wouldn’t earn enough to pay tax and 2) they are not eligible for mainstream benefits until their cases are processed AND they’ve been given leave to remain AND right to work.

People were complaining that groups of them were proving to be a nuisance hanging around towns all day.

growstuff

Idealism is shutting one's eyes and thinking problems will disappear. Realism is accepting the current situation and looking for solutions.

It absolutely isn’t shutting one’s eyes and hoping things will disappear!

Where would we be without the Martin Luther Kings of this world?

Realists are usually pessimistic about the possibility of radical systemic reform, and that can lead to passivity.

Having both traits is preferable.

It's funny how GSM whose experiences were limited I believe to a solicitors office and a certain area of law knows how every aspect of the economy works. Many of the small businesses where I live have signed up to a request that they be permitted to employ asylum seekers while their applications are processed. They see I believe a group of people willing to work who are reasonably certain to stay in the area and to turn up regularly for work. At any rate I think they probably know more about employing these people than GSM does.
It certainly isn't idealism. It's very practical realism which solves many problems.

Well they are disappearing. 21.000 asylum seekers have disappeared apparently. I don’t know if that’s realism or idealism since some people presumably want them to disappear!

Casdon

Where would we be without the Martin Luther Kings of this world?

Realists are usually pessimistic about the possibility of radical systemic reform, and that can lead to passivity.

Having both traits is preferable.

I agree, both traits with a touch of pragmatism - perfect.

Where would we be without vision and optimism, which needs to be balanced with a dose of realism.

www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/

Interesting, I think I must lean towards Idealist because that is closest to Romanticist. I'm certainly not particularly rational, but come from a more spontaneous, imaginative angle. Some people would be surprised how often that can work and create original, effective alternatives. It isn't dismissing things, it's just acting on one's emotions.

Remind me, Glorianny, weren’t you a teacher? If so you probably didn’t employ people. I did, and I was a director of a construction company which employed people - a great many. I also acted for companies which were very significant employers, My experience is a great deal wider than you imagine. Don’t imagine that I just sat behind a desk preparing documents - you couldn’t be more wrong.

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I'd be up for that .... exploring the ideas of Kant or Plato, but too much personal, high horse, stuff gets in the way.

When I first came on this forum, I was surprised quite how much it felt like being 17 again, and back at school doing debates.
And I have to say, much of it was[and still is to a certain extent] in the Politics Section.

Yes, pie in the sky.

Part of the reason I am not on it so much nowadays.
I really cannot be bothered to debate like that.

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I don't know, you raised the question.

But I'm hoping Cossy could explain her thoughts.

Namsnanny

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I don't know, you raised the question.

I certainly don’t think it is, I’m with Joseann, and interested to hear what Cossy had in mind.

Joseann

Casdon

Namsnanny

What is this thread hoping to achieve Cossy?

Presumably an intelligent philosophical debate - is that bad in some way?

I'd be up for that .... exploring the ideas of Kant or Plato, but too much personal, high horse, stuff gets in the way.

*too much high horse stuff gets in the way^ ....

Well, that's where it all get's murky.
Your high horse might be my donkey. Then the brickbats begin.