Realism V Idealism

Agreed.

If you are an employer at the top of the tree you have to be a visionary, you may only have a few or many thousands but you have to know your objectives. Along the way you will have some employees that do not share that vision and they have to go. It’s not nice but that’s what leadership is all about

Chocolatelovinggran

We do need idealists/ dreamers/ eternal optimists to give us inspiration, even if it then requires practical folk to assist effective implementation. All of us are in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
Oh, and GSM, as a Headteacher I employed 90 people, appointed many, and put a few on disciplinary.

Were you the employer or was it the education authority/charity?

This might be a small fly in the ointment. Fact, not propaganda.
crbdirect.org.uk/landscape-architect-or-gardener-dbs-check/#:~:text=Working%20in%20public%20spaces%20and,is%20a%20basic%20DBS%20check.

maddyone

Does anyone actually believe that asylum seekers have undertaken that enormous journey to get here to go and be gardeners in our public parks?

YES, they want any job that will enable them to better themselves, prove themselves and build a new life, anything to get out of the poverty they left behind in their own country.

We have seen this in all migrant populations they will work twice as hard to make a start for themselves in a new country, with the second generation it’s different, but that’s another story.

We do need idealists/ dreamers/ eternal optimists to give us inspiration, even if it then requires practical folk to assist effective implementation. All of us are in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
Oh, and GSM, as a Headteacher I employed 90 people, appointed many, and put a few on disciplinary.

Now that I agree with.

Some people don't understand the difference between propaganda and news.

Oreo

Glorianny

I was asked for evidence about employers wanting asylum seekers I googled it because although I have local knowledge I wanted country-wide info. And guess what it isn't just small employers. Big businesses want them as well
www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1827229/hiring-refugees-businesses-need-know-does-hr-need-do#:~:text=Big%2Dname%20employers%20such%20as,

And a report
www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/

I read it.
Businesses don’t want asylum seekers they want those who they can actually employ who have been granted refugee status.
It makes this quite clear and says businesses must be aware of the difference between asylum seekers and refugees.
For instance Ukrainians have refugee status among others.

Exactly Oreo. Not sure Glorianny understands the difference.

Asylum seekers can and do volunteer in many projects I've met quite a few who are helping run community projects. One of the young women had degrees, spoke excellent English and wanted to teach. She was running workshops for the local community. It is difficult for them though. They are in temporary accommodation, waiting for a judgement about their status for which they have no timeline, and they are not entitled to ask for one. It's difficult to commit to something when you are hoping your situation will soon change.

Germanshepherdsmum

And that sort of experience will turn asylum seekers into skilled gardeners who can support themselves financially? Dream on.

Heres another one! The Syrian family who had nothing and now run one of the best restaurants in town. Is that of any use?

Does anyone actually believe that asylum seekers have undertaken that enormous journey to get here to go and be gardeners in our public parks?

Most asyllum seekers are economic migrants so they do want work because there is none in their home country, many are educated to a good standard and speak English.

I don’t have a problem with migrants but we need a control system that works.

Wyllow3

utterbliss

Does anyone know if asylum seekers can do unpaid voluntary work? say litter picking
It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres.

Yes they can utterbliss.

Gov.UK, "Asylum seekers can volunteer whilst their claim is considered without being granted permission to work."

Locally it's organised by the Refugee/Asylum centre in conjunction with the Volunteer Centre.

Very large number of projects, of course most can only take a few, but together it's a model of how to try and co-operate. However, only realistic number wise in bigger towns/cities?

Thank you Wyllow.

utterbliss

Does anyone know if asylum seekers can do unpaid voluntary work? say litter picking
It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres.

I don't know the legal position. In the case which seems to have sparked off this discussion my friend, who works in an asylum seeker hostel, asked some of them to help him out on his allotment. Some other allotment holders asked whether other asylum seekers would help them out too. They were acting as "friends", not an official voluntary organisation. My friend is an ex police officer and as straight as a die. I'm sure he would have cleared it with his supervisors.

I agree with this absolutely: It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres. That was my point - not that they would all go on to become horticulturalists.

utterbliss

Does anyone know if asylum seekers can do unpaid voluntary work? say litter picking
It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres.

Yes they can utterbliss.

Gov.UK, "Asylum seekers can volunteer whilst their claim is considered without being granted permission to work."

Locally it's organised by the Refugee/Asylum centre in conjunction with the Volunteer Centre.

Very large number of projects, of course most can only take a few, but together it's a model of how to try and co-operate. However, only realistic number wise in bigger towns/cities?

JaneJudge

Did you know you can mate a zebra with a donkey and get a zonkey? But I don’t think zonkeys can mate with one another. I will check and report back

I quite fancy a zonkey.
It could eat my lawn, then I wouldn't need a gardener.

utterbliss

Does anyone know if asylum seekers can do unpaid voluntary work? say litter picking
It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres.

I wouldnt know if an asylum seeker was legal or not if he came to my door. A few years ago I needed my floor sanded, contacted a local ad, a Polish lad turned up, did a satisfactory demonstration, got the job, paid cash, maybe I should have asked for his work permit!.

Does anyone know if asylum seekers can do unpaid voluntary work? say litter picking
It would help them with their mental health and prevent groups of young men from handing around city centres.

Yes we do need ideals certainly personal ones, but wider ideals are not possible because the ideals of others are different.
On a national or global scale it’s all about realism, ideals go out of the window for a Government there are so many different ideals and on top of that you have to pay for whatever priorities you have.
The only influence I have is to vote for a different government, and I really don’t believe Labour is going to have vastly different policies but maybe they will be more honest.

It the idealogy of Hamas to drive the Jews out of Israel, no matter how many lives are lost.

Glorianny

I was asked for evidence about employers wanting asylum seekers I googled it because although I have local knowledge I wanted country-wide info. And guess what it isn't just small employers. Big businesses want them as well
www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1827229/hiring-refugees-businesses-need-know-does-hr-need-do#:~:text=Big%2Dname%20employers%20such%20as,

And a report
www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/

I read it.
Businesses don’t want asylum seekers they want those who they can actually employ who have been granted refugee status.
It makes this quite clear and says businesses must be aware of the difference between asylum seekers and refugees.
For instance Ukrainians have refugee status among others.

growstuff

“Germanshepherdsmum
And that sort of experience will turn asylum seekers into skilled gardeners who can support themselves financially? Dream on.
No, it is the kind of work which needs doing and which keeps people off the streets. It gives people a purpose and an opportunity to meet with other people. It doesn't need skilled people to do it and the skills needed can easily be taught on the job.

Many asylum seekers want to study, if given the opportunity. Of course they wouldn't all go on to be skilled horticulturalists, but if granted asylum so they could actually study and work, they might even end up in a house with a garden. Meanwhile, they're being offered a reason to get out of bed. Many asylum seekers suffer from depression from having little hope or purpose.

It's not idealism to write about something which is already happening on a small scale.”

👏👏👏 Yes, Growstuff entirely what I envisage!

nanna8

Very trusting people here. I wouldn’t let just anyone be a gardener and have access to my property. They would need references and recommendations. I would call that realism.

However, no one is suggesting they should be “let loose” in individual gardens, there’s loads of public spaces, church land, parkland, where they could be usefully employed totally supervised.

Goodness, why do some people have to be so extreme! I would not advocate them cleaning in private houses either or babysitting your children or caring for your Nan!

Plenty of criminals do community service in many different ways, I’m suggesting something similar, but paid!

JaneJudge

Did you know you can mate a zebra with a donkey and get a zonkey? But I don’t think zonkeys can mate with one another. I will check and report back

It’s actually called a Zeedonk, or at least the ones in Colchester Zoo are.

I was asked for evidence about employers wanting asylum seekers I googled it because although I have local knowledge I wanted country-wide info. And guess what it isn't just small employers. Big businesses want them as well
www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1827229/hiring-refugees-businesses-need-know-does-hr-need-do#:~:text=Big%2Dname%20employers%20such%20as,

And a report
www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/