How do you know if you're dead dead?? 🤔🥴💀

Tinygramma
There is much ongoing research about the process of death, not merely when doctors pronounce life extinct.

Aren’t there any doctors on here who can confirm this one way or another?

Thanks everyone. A very interesting read. Feeling a little reassured, I think. 🤔🥴😆

This is where the saying 'saved by the bell' came from.
When being buried, string was tied to the body and the other end was above ground. Watchmen would listen out for tinkling bells, which would tell them that the person was not actually deceased and needed to be dug up!
I wonder when and why this stopped?

Thanks Farzanah for introducing the link previously: The new science of death: ‘There’s something happening in the brain that makes no sense’ | Death and dying | The Guardian.

It sets out a more coherent theory than I was able to do, it makes sense and explains why there are such diverse interpretations of what ‘consciousness’ actually means amongst us.

We have been so accustomed to using rudimentary clinical methods that test receptiveness in order to establish the level of consciousness that it was refreshing to read scientists are now suggesting we ought “to disentangle consciousness from responsiveness”.

Subconsciously the mind seeks pattern and predictability, when this is disrupted it correlates with increased fear and a rise in adrenaline thus heightening awareness. Whatever other chemical and gas exchanges take place non can prove, with empirical certainty, that the person is unaware at the point of death even if they appear so [sorry to everyone seeking comfortable words].

The last breath and heart beat are not reliable indicators of death, they are merely primitive signs to give society an explanation for the unexplained

I agree ‘death is not just a single event but appears more of a process and it is likely that awareness is still present, maybe on another level, during the process.

arum

From the National Geographic "Countdown to Irreversibility" . . . About halfway through the article www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/dying-death-brain-dead-body-consciousness-science

Couldn't read the article as came up saying;
This article is exclusively for National Geographic subscribers.

Thank you for bringing neuroscience research to the debate rustyfairy. This was covered in the Guardian article that I posted earlier I believe, and I think as science develops we may learn more about the mystery of consciousness, and indeed death, which it appears a process, not just a single event.
I find it fascinating.

neurosciencenews.com/death-nde-consciousness-23161/
There are links to the full report for anyone interested. This research paper was based on preceding research 10 years earlier whereby rats were selected as the sample

As we are aware, research starts with a hypothesis / question, requiring the Ethic Committee approval of the methodology i.e. the procedures / techniques used to: identify, select samples, process, and analyse information about the findings, which is then published for critique by peers.

Initially research always starts with a small sample due to funding and is only widened out at a later stage.

To quote MissAdventure’s comment - “the article states that it couldn't even be taken seriously, since it was such a tiny fraction of people” is inaccurate, the report did not state this. The scientists acknowledged the limitations of the study due the size of the small sample BUT stated “caution against making any global statements about the implications of the findings”.

Research should be taken seriously and not misquoted and casually dismissed – it is the beginning of the opportunity to increase knowledge of a largely unknown subject.

Back to Poppyred’s initial comment, Debate continues among scientists, philosophers, religions and clinicians. Each have their own assessment criteria, i.e. clinicians measure consciousness by physical assessment such as eye opening, motor response, and verbalization whereas religions may interpret consciousness as the journey to enlightenment and Freud associates three levels of awareness which correspond to his ideas about id, ego and superego.

It seems clear by all the comments that people interpret consciousness in different ways, so best not shoot the messengers

I think it's a bodily reaction, not any indication of consciousness, ir anything near it.

Plus, the article states that it couldn't even be taken seriously, since it was such a tiny fraction of people.

MissAdventure

Thank you (I think!)
That's a bit unsettling.

This is what I find worrying.

Thank you (I think!)
That's a bit unsettling.

neurosciencenews.com/death-nde-consciousness-23161/

Arum, thanks, but the article is for subscribers only.

From the National Geographic "Countdown to Irreversibility" . . . About halfway through the article www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/dying-death-brain-dead-body-consciousness-science

Farzanah

There is a ‘Long Read’ in the Guardian dated 2/4/2024. On the “New Science of Death” which is interesting.

Thanks for mentioning this article, Farzanah, it’s very interesting.

Yoginimeisje

Marydoll

Yoginimeisje

Sorry think it's 70/90 hours.

Do you have any scientific evidence?

No, I don't, but I remember it said in a documentary just after my dad died unexpectedly. I was quite traumatised by my dad's death and so watched/read everything there was on dying & death. Before this I would avoid anything like that. I thought; ^so dad could hear me then, when I was talking to him^

I think you have definitely misheard 70-90 hours, as I believe brain ‘activity’ of some kind may only be detected a few minutes after death.

Marydoll

Yoginimeisje

Sorry think it's 70/90 hours.

Do you have any scientific evidence?

No, I don't, but I remember it said in a documentary just after my dad died unexpectedly. I was quite traumatised by my dad's death and so watched/read everything there was on dying & death. Before this I would avoid anything like that. I thought; so dad could hear me then, when I was talking to him

QuoteMadeInYorkshire

I'm so very sorry to read about your DD & what a terribly time you had during your pregnancy with her.

Sorry further entitled “There’s something happening in the brain which makes no sense”.

There is a ‘Long Read’ in the Guardian dated 2/4/2024. On the “New Science of Death” which is interesting.

“Brain activity” doesn’t mean consciousness.

Yoginimeisje

Sorry think it's 70/90 hours.

Do you have any scientific evidence?

Sorry think it's 70/90 hours.

There is still brain activity for 70/90 minutes after death.

I don't think you're likely to be buried or cremated whilst still alive, unless it happens very soon after your death. You can only survive for about three days without water and nobody is going to bring you a drink if they think you're dead. So if you didn't die of anything else, you would die of dehydration.

As for remaining conscious after death... Well, whether you're buried or cremated, your body won't last forever. So if there's some form of spiritual life after death, your consciousness or soul or whatever must eventually be free of your body. If there's nothing spiritual except your consciousness somehow lingering on, that's not a state that could last very long as your brain would soon cease to exist and your consciousness along with it.

So there's nothing really to be scared of, unless you believe in a religion which offers the possibility of hell. There's no way to comfort people about that, except to say that they're unlikely to be be bad enough to qualify!