If you can manage financially - would you pay more tax, for better public services?

I was talking about taking risks as an employer Casdon, not as an investor. I was an employer, along with my partners, and with that comes risk and responsibility over and above that associated with the job.

Yes, I know Germanshepherdsmum, although as with anything, some take risks and some are risk averse in terms of investment. Of course, high risk investments are just that, high risk and people who choose that route know there are potentially both big gains and big losses. Everybody I know, myself included therefore have balanced portfolios.

Many of those people have already paid shedloads of tax and employ people, Casdon. That means taking risks which keep you awake at night. Yet even more is expected of them.

No, he has said that he won’t raise Income Tax, NI or VAT, maybe keep the “triple lock” not sure.

There are plenty of other taxes to raise, he’s not a magician he can’t improve services without more revenue.

He has said Labour won’t raise taxation though, and it is already at a historic high, so I think it’s unlikely that the average taxpayer will be hit further. The people who are worried about a Labour Government aren’t the average taxpayers though, it’s those who already earn and pay more tax, who as a group are the ones who are most likely to have benefitted from shareholder gains - what goes around comes around I guess.

Casdon

Katie590

All of us honest taxpayers are going to have to get used to paying a lot more.

Why, are you expecting the Tories to get in again Katie590?

I’m not, I’m expecting Starmer to raise taxation, it needs at least a 10% rise revenue to fix the NHS, Water Treatment,
Net Zero and all the other things that are wrong.

Growth of the economy could help, however I don’t see growth doing more than keep up with inflation for at least 5 yrs.

GrannyGravy13

My reason for not wishing to pay anymore tax is
1) I doubt very much it would be earmarked for NHS or social care

2) No prospective government has the cajuna’s to reform the above.

3) having worked for the NHS albeit briefly I have seen first hand the waste of taxpayers money.

Throwing money at a problem, any problem is never the solution. Why are public services not looking at reform and efficiency measures like the private sector ?

I think there's a distinct difference between throwing money at a problem, and funding it adequately.

The problem with the NHS, is that it's dealing with sick people, each one - even with the same disease - behaving differently, so it's quite difficult IMO to formulate a standard, tick-box, protocol for dealing with, say, disease 'A', or 'B'. Which might look efficient on paper, but not in practice.
Obviously, investigative procedures can be standardised.

I spent in total, with a break in between, 8 months in hospital...2 lots of 4 months each stay.

On one occasion, I was told to describe a pain that I was too dazed and inarticulate to explain - because the nurse had xx amount of time in which to complete the form she was filling in, and we were near the time limit - and she was stressed. So I chose one of the 'multiple choice' options she gave me to speed me up, because she stressed me too and I felt obliged to give an answer - any answer. The end result of all this is that my pain was indicative of something seriously wrong after surgery, something that, had it been recognised earlier would've shortened my stay in hospital, but instead lengthened it - because I gave the wrong answer in order for the nurse to reach her 'target'. An efficiency drive that backfired and cost the NHS more money because I occupied a bed longer than I needed to.

So when you talk about efficiency - which I'm in favour of - it has to be realistic. Very sick or ill people need dealing with efficiently, but they cannot always be quantified in terms of time, targets and tick-boxes. I'm not sure a business model can be used in such cases without error.

Katie590

All of us honest taxpayers are going to have to get used to paying a lot more.

Why, are you expecting the Tories to get in again Katie590?

All of us honest taxpayers are going to have to get used to paying a lot more.

Of course they / we pay taxes, why wouldn’t we?

Katie590

“There are many Labour voters who are ‘wealthy’ and will continue to vote Labour. A large number in my friendship group”

Presumably they approve of taxing those that can pay

Those with higher incomes already pay higher tax.

“There are many Labour voters who are ‘wealthy’ and will continue to vote Labour. A large number in my friendship group”

Presumably they approve of taxing those that can pay

Katie590

Germanshepherdsmum

So how would Starmer do any better with no increases in income tax, NI or corporation tax?

I’ve been put and about all day in the sunshine so no chance to respond

Inheritance Tax, Council Tax, Insurance Tax, Climate Change Levy, making some benefits Means Tested, there are plenty of ways of milking those that have got wealth and probably won’t vote Labour anyway.

There are many Labour voters who are ‘wealthy’ and will continue to vote Labour. A large number in my friendship group

Exactly.

Germanshepherdsmum

So how would Starmer do any better with no increases in income tax, NI or corporation tax?

I’ve been put and about all day in the sunshine so no chance to respond

Inheritance Tax, Council Tax, Insurance Tax, Climate Change Levy, making some benefits Means Tested, there are plenty of ways of milking those that have got wealth and probably won’t vote Labour anyway.

Oh the other hand he isn't likely to go for some Big New Idea like Conscription

....given that any promise made will have to be workable and desirable.

Yes, there's got to be something more decisive exciting somewhere surely!

Joseann he may be waiting for the release of the Election Manifesto. Will be a flagship moment for both parties?

I'm guessing that the Labour party currently has many experts, financial and legal, picking their way through all the changes they wish to make. Starmer has a lot of unravelling to do, and there will certainly be challenges in terms of little available money and entrenched practices.
I just wish he would come up with one major plan, like from Day One re nationalising the water companies, or re implementing Boris' green policy, or handing more control to local authorities. Just anything, to show he isn't someone who finds it hard to make decisions.
He can then go on to make changes to taxation if that is what he feels would work.

I agree. We have more in common than things we see differently. No need to fall out.
I worked in private companies till training in probation/social work at 30. Varied interesting work. My daughters and their husbands all self employed, after varied career paths. One daughter a good primary teacher who couldn’t continue once her children arrived. She runs a successful business
So I’m not anti private - I’m despairing at the destruction of good practice in health and social care. Privatisations alongside difficulties recruiting and retaining staff - I’ll stop it I’ll be in full rant mode
The worst thing Gove contributed was his disdain for experts. If we listened more to then and less to folk who want easy profit we’d do better

Iam64

GranntGravy - we had detailed plans for preventive and therapeutic plans. They were effective then austerity killed it. Experienced practitioners and management out, our good work outsourced to private companies who provided poor service for profit
We won’t agree on this.

E

Do not want to fall out 🙋‍♀️

I suppose it all comes down to what we have seen, heard and experienced.

I am rather cynical and do not trust any of the parties on what they envisage they can/will implement over the course of the next five years.

I am still involved in the running /future planning of our SME, the tax burden on companies is something which concerns me greatly, particularly Labour”s proposed commercial tax which has not been detailed.

GranntGravy - we had detailed plans for preventive and therapeutic plans. They were effective then austerity killed it. Experienced practitioners and management out, our good work outsourced to private companies who provided poor service for profit
We won’t agree on this.

E

Yes

Iam64

I’ve found throwing money at maintaining or improving my home garden of care is helpful

Same when I helped my adult children by throwing money occasionally
I recall improved services when we were given larger budgets fir children and families

Depends on those who decide how and where that money is spent.

You and your AC obviously had a detailed plan of what the money was used for.

I fear that those in charge of NHS, Social Care etc do not. It is easy not to consider how to spend money effectively when it is not yours, and you hope for a never ending supply.

I’ve found throwing money at maintaining or improving my home garden of care is helpful

Same when I helped my adult children by throwing money occasionally
I recall improved services when we were given larger budgets fir children and families