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Will you watch tonight’s debate on BBC at 7:30pm?

(154 Posts)
Urmstongran Fri 07-Jun-24 16:37:40

I’m going to give it a go but to be honest 7 pundits might be a bit much. Not sure 90 minutes of shouting and getting in digs and sound bites will be in any way particularly informative.

What do you think?

MayBee70 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:07:46

HOME|LIFE|IN THE NEWS
Angela Rayner Should Not Be Criticised For Her Grammar
‘I wasn’t Eton educated, but growing up in Stockport I was taught integrity,’ she responded to backlash over her phrasing and accent.
Angela Rayner
By Lydia Spencer-Elliott | Updated On12 01 2022
As the country rages at the news of another Number 10 lockdown garden party there is one woman that seems to be everywhere. The Deputy Leader Of The Opposition Angela Rayner has relentlessly held Boris Johnson to account on social media and across numerous TV channels throughout the ongoing controversy.
She said on BBC Breakfast the Prime Minister should resign for attending the BYOB gathering. She told Channel 4 ‘many people would be disgusted,’ at his actions. She asked on Sky News{ =nofollow}: ‘Why are we propping up this man who lied to the British public and who has broke the rules and broke the law?’

Across these multiple platforms, Rayner spoke clearly and critically about the apparent hypocrisy of Boris Johnson and his Government. Yet rather than commending her resilience, many people had just one comment to make about Rayner’s speech: It should be ‘broken the rules’ not ‘broke’.
‘I’ve been on the media this morning so my accent and grammar are being critiqued,’ Rayner responded on Twitter. ‘I wasn’t Eton educated, but growing up in Stockport I was taught integrity, honesty and decency. Doesn’t matter how you say it. Boris Johnson is unfit to lead.’
The noticeable public response to Rayner’s way of talking exemplifies that we, as a nation, have come to expect politics to be drenched in Southern accents and ostentatious speech. When the response from a politician is blunt and immediate, rather than convoluted and evasive, suddenly it feels wrong.
Why are we valuing the language of people, such as Johnson, that use words like ‘contrition’ instead of guilt or shame? This is often the language of lies. It allows for deception through its inaccessibility. It has the power to manipulate figures and facts with semantic smoke and mirrors.
When Rayner stood in for a covid-ridden Keir Starmer at the first Prime Minister’s Questions of the year, she grilled Johnson about inflation running at six per cent, to which his reply was, essentially, ‘um, er’.
From an interview in Grazia 2022

Anniebach Sat 08-Jun-24 15:22:04

Thank you MayBee , mocked because of her accent

Nicenanny3 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:30:33

Why shouldn't she be criticised she had better get used to it. Nothing to do with Northern accents, my husband and 2 children have Northern accents, nothing wrong with coming from up North. My point is she is potentially going to be our next Deputy PM and she keeps getting her words wrong if you think that OK well your choice but put her next to someone educated like Penny Mordaunt and the cracks start to show in my opinion and I am allowed to have one.

Casdon Sat 08-Jun-24 15:34:51

Not our choice, Nicenanny3, the choice of the electorate. You’ll be spitting feathers before much longer.

Germanshepherdsmum Sat 08-Jun-24 15:36:55

She shouldn’t try to use words which are outside her normal (limited) vocabulary.

Siope Sat 08-Jun-24 15:37:42

My point is she is potentially going to be our next Deputy PM

Can you please tell me which elements of the role you believe she wouldn’t/wont be able to do?

MayBee70 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:38:17

Nicenanny3

Why shouldn't she be criticised she had better get used to it. Nothing to do with Northern accents, my husband and 2 children have Northern accents, nothing wrong with coming from up North. My point is she is potentially going to be our next Deputy PM and she keeps getting her words wrong if you think that OK well your choice but put her next to someone educated like Penny Mordaunt and the cracks start to show in my opinion and I am allowed to have one.

And then she kept rudely pointing her finger at Mordaunt didn’t she? How commonOh, hang on a minute….

Granniesunite Sat 08-Jun-24 15:40:31

“Getting her words wrong”

My take on that is are the words lies or just bad grammar?

I can put up with the bad grammar it’s the lies I will not tolerate.

A very interesting article MayBe 70 you might have to retweet that a few times…

Katie590 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:54:16

Rayner is a firebrand and probably will become deputy PM, time will tell whether she becomes a stateswoman and a competent minister of state. She will have her chance it’s up to her

MayBee70 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:56:51

Granniesunite

“Getting her words wrong”

My take on that is are the words lies or just bad grammar?

I can put up with the bad grammar it’s the lies I will not tolerate.

A very interesting article MayBe 70 you might have to retweet that a few times…

I doubt if some people will read it sad DH and I kept saying the other day how relieved we were that Johnson wasn’t representing us at the D D ceremony.

Pantglas2 Sat 08-Jun-24 15:59:56

Well whatever you say about him, Boris would never have left early, would’ve made himself centre stage somehow and you’d all be moaning about that now…!

Casdon Sat 08-Jun-24 16:07:34

I think that’s fair comment actually Pantglas2. Johnson had a very well developed sense of occasion.

Pantglas2 Sat 08-Jun-24 16:09:28

“Well developed” is being kind Casdon, I’d say more over the top!

Whitewavemark2 Sat 08-Jun-24 16:34:21

I’ve just posted on the poll thread.

The right wing press are desperate to pin a boo-boo on Starmer/Rayner to try to get some movement in the polls, but Labour are playing them at their own game and not giving them an inch. This has resulted in a pretty boring election from Labour so far - but it is working!

Last night for example. Raynor is an excellent debater, and she was surprisingly constrained last night. But her constraint gave Mordaunt a lot of rope with which Mordaunt duly hung herself.

Less is more folks!

Unless you are Sunak who really should show patriotism and turn up at commemorations of some of the country’s most important events.

Sparklefizz Sat 08-Jun-24 17:36:36

Last night for example. Raynor is an excellent debater, and she was surprisingly constrained last night. But her constraint gave Mordaunt a lot of rope with which Mordaunt duly hung herself.

Maybe Rayner just didn't know what to say, or maybe had been advised not to get carried away in case she began calling people "scum"??

There are two ways of looking at it.

Casdon Sat 08-Jun-24 17:56:00

There are as many ways of looking at it as there are people who saw it Sparklefizz, and plenty of people who didn’t even watch it seem to have a view too, which is not to do with the debate itself at all. None of the people I expected to do well particularly shone purely on their performance during the debate, I thought the best was Stephen Flynn on the night.

Iam64 Sat 08-Jun-24 19:08:53

I watched it. I enjoyed the support the audience gave to the SNP and Plaid Cymru when they pointed out we need immigrants to work, especially in care/nhs.
The government/right wing have it wrong, our society is more compassionate and liberal than they think.

As for the nasty, bigoted, snobby comments about Rayner - she’s worth 20 of you

Nicenanny3 Sat 08-Jun-24 19:44:58

Iam64

I watched it. I enjoyed the support the audience gave to the SNP and Plaid Cymru when they pointed out we need immigrants to work, especially in care/nhs.
The government/right wing have it wrong, our society is more compassionate and liberal than they think.

As for the nasty, bigoted, snobby comments about Rayner - she’s worth 20 of you

Seems the truth hurts, well I certainly got your goat, she's worth 20 of you really, sounds like somethings a little kid would say in the playground so silly and petty and I thought this forum was for grown ups.

Siope Sat 08-Jun-24 19:58:12

Nicenanny3 for the third time, please can you tell me which parts of the Deputy Prime Minister’s role Rayner won’t be able to do?

Casdon Sat 08-Jun-24 20:00:29

Nicenanny3

Iam64

I watched it. I enjoyed the support the audience gave to the SNP and Plaid Cymru when they pointed out we need immigrants to work, especially in care/nhs.
The government/right wing have it wrong, our society is more compassionate and liberal than they think.

As for the nasty, bigoted, snobby comments about Rayner - she’s worth 20 of you

Seems the truth hurts, well I certainly got your goat, she's worth 20 of you really, sounds like somethings a little kid would say in the playground so silly and petty and I thought this forum was for grown ups.

You gratuitously goad other posters who have different opinions to yourself Nicenanny3, and there’s no need for it, it does you no credit whatsoever.

Iam64 Sat 08-Jun-24 20:02:13

No the truth doesn’t hurt. Nasty, uncalled for personal attacks - well they’d hurt if they meant anything

Doodledog Sat 08-Jun-24 20:13:37

Well said, Iam.

When people admit to listening to someone's accent and grammar, rather than what they say, it's proof enough that now's the time for the UK to have a change of direction, I'd say.

We've had 14 years of being ruled by public schoolboys, and they've med a reet arse of it. Let someone else have a go.

Nicenanny3 Sun 09-Jun-24 08:04:04

Iam64

No the truth doesn’t hurt. Nasty, uncalled for personal attacks - well they’d hurt if they meant anything

I've not made any personal attacks on the thread to other posters only you have. Anyway carry on, life's too short.

Luckygirl3 Sun 09-Jun-24 08:20:42

Politics seem to bring out the worst in people - and sadly often out of the politicians themselves. This is why I am not watching any of the debates or election speeches. I will look at the manifestos.

I am happy to have leaders who have integrity whatever their accent or "limited vocabulary".

Calendargirl Sun 09-Jun-24 09:45:56

Excuse my ignorance, but will we be able to view the manifestos online when they come out?

Have tried to look it up about them, but can’t seem to find much.