Will you watch tonight’s debate on BBC at 7:30pm?

You are right ... it is very hard to get your hands on the manifestos. Joining a party mailing list to receive it just results in begging letters.

It's interesting that when Keir Starmer waited politely for Sunak's lies to finish he was criticised with the 'rabbit in the headlights' cliche, but when Angela Rayner tried to argue with Penny Mourdant she is criticised for doing that. I understand confirmation bias, and will be guilty of it myself, but in this campaign it seems to be worse than ever. People are commenting using cliches they've been fed in advance, seemingly without listening to what is being said.

This is where Farage gains ground, as he's very good at dog-whistles, and can think on his feet in interviews and play to the gallery without clowning around like Ed Davey or Boris Johnson. He can sound statesmanlike even though he doesn't actually say anything about his policies (if he has any).

Obviously Reform won't win, but the Tories are doing so badly that Reform may become the opposition, as Farage is clearly hoping. His strategy is to try to nudge people towards seeing them as a viable alternative to the Tories. Much as I don't like Tory policies and would like to see them in the wilderness for a decade or so, I would rather see them in opposition than Reform, as the opposition can drive the narrative, and all I hear Farage talk about is immigration, low tax and how he believes in people paying for the NHS.

Also, I know he's a Trump supporter, which is a worry, as if Trump is re-elected in the US the last thing we need in the UK is for him to ally himself with the opposition here, and try to scupper the government's attempts to improve things, whoever wins.

I think anyone thinking of voting Labour should be aware that there are things going on behind the scenes that the public may not be aware of. Here for example we have Angela Rayner promising Muslim voters that if they vote for her then Labour will recognise Palestine. The video is very revealing, the desperate babbling and the reaction of those around her.
Angela Rayner appeals to Muslim voters

Chestnut

I think anyone thinking of voting Labour should be aware that there are things going on behind the scenes that the public may not be aware of. Here for example we have Angela Rayner promising Muslim voters that if they vote for her then Labour will recognise Palestine. The video is very revealing, the desperate babbling and the reaction of those around her.
Angela Rayner appeals to Muslim voters

I don’t think ‘Senior Labour Politician reiterates Labour’s official position on Palestine’ is quite the secret shock you think it is.

Starmer has already said this weeks ago (even that Mail article acknowledges that) and has made it clear he expects it to be in the Labour manifesto.

See, for example, www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-manifesto-leak-palestine-israel-state-b2558259.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/06/keir-starmer-recognition-for-palestine-in-labour-manifesto/

www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-labour-leader-starmer-says-wants-recognise-palestinian-state-part-peace-2024-05-24/

I don't think that was 'behind the scenes' . Clearly it was in front of journalists, there was a photo opportunity, and is not secret.

Do you think that Muslim voters should not have their concerns addressed, Chestnut?

Oh dear, this thread has deteriorated somewhat since I last looked at it.

In what way, maddie?

Doodledog

I don't think that was 'behind the scenes' . Clearly it was in front of journalists, there was a photo opportunity, and is not secret.

Do you think that Muslim voters should not have their concerns addressed, Chestnut?

Anyone's concerns about this country should be addressed but that is not what is happening here. Making promises like this are just a desperate attempt to win voters but could have far reaching consequences.

I don't think the LP are 'desperate', though. They are a long way ahead.

Let's get this straight. It is UK government policy that talks for cease fire and heading towards a two state solution

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/uk-statement-on-the-situation-of-workers-of-the-occupied-arab-territories#:~:text=The%20UK%20supports%20an%20irreversible,resumed%20at%20the%20appropriate%20time.

See point 7

"The UK supports an irreversible two-state solution that guarantees security and stability for both the Israeli and Palestinian people. The UK has offered support to the Palestinian Authority to implement much-needed reforms, and we encourage labour and social policy reforms to be resumed at the appropriate time. An effective PA is vital for lasting peace and progress towards a two-state solution

Raynor was not saying anything new as regards this. These are just anti-Labour smear tactics

It's wise to check facts before making allegations?

Raynor was not saying anything new as regards this. These are just anti-Labour smear tactics

Of course they are, and words like 'behind the scenes' and 'desperate attempt' fool nobody. They just expose the smear for what it is.

And again earlier - January - recognising Palestinian State

"Is the UK considering Recognising Palestine state?

Britain is ready to bring forward the moment when it formally recognises a Palestinian state, the foreign secretary has suggested. Lord Cameron said Palestinians had to be given a political horizon to encourage peace in the Middle East"

reference for last statement
www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Gov.UK+support+two+state+solution&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

David Cameron once described Gaza as a ‘prison camp’ did he not?

Desperate tactics. It is Reform that the Tories should be frightened of.

I’ve just seen a poll that puts Reform level with the Tories😮

Whitewavemark2

Desperate tactics. It is Reform that the Tories should be frightened of.

I’ve just seen a poll that puts Reform level with the Tories😮

One Reform candidate, Gary Sutherland, was fined £2,000 for kicking a dog a year or so ago.

MayBee70

Whitewavemark2

Desperate tactics. It is Reform that the Tories should be frightened of.

I’ve just seen a poll that puts Reform level with the Tories😮

One Reform candidate, Gary Sutherland, was fined £2,000 for kicking a dog a year or so ago.

Yes - that is why they reckon that the reform support in the polls won’t hold up, because now the candidates will come under more scrutiny and their history will be revealed just as it did with the UKiP lot.

So racists, criminals, the dim etc will be revealed and decent folk will turn away from giving them the support.

It's the risk of all small parties I think, it happened to the Greens to some extent. Obviously there are all sorts of problems with a two party race but the small parties quite frequently worry me.

I think it’s probably more a risk for small parties who are far right or left, in fairness to the Lib Dem’s they don’t seem to attract more than their fair share of people with shady backgrounds?

Siope

I will give it a go. There are a number of intelligent, articulate politicians who, when Ive seen them speak, seem to be on top of their brief, involved: Flynn, Rayner, Cooper & Denyer, in particular.

I hope the format allows for informed debate, and that the moderation is high quality.

I agree. As far as informed debate goes, all I've seen so far has been arguing and shouting over each other. (not a good look) Lets hope as you say, that there is better moderation this time.

The lib dems seem to have a strong ish group within who tend to put up some resistance. They do it in a very polite lib dem sort of way

Galaxy

The lib dems seem to have a strong ish group within who tend to put up some resistance. They do it in a very polite lib dem sort of way

Yes, I agree - I was thinking more of people with dodgy issues in their past really, rather than group uprisings.

Yes, Reform having to ditch candidates for Racism - this report 2 days old and two candidates ditched after accusations of racism and religious hate.

Channel 4 news, includes a video with one of the candidates where the candidate compares black people with animals and other very racist memes.

www.channel4.com/news/two-reform-uk-candidates-ditched-after-accusations-of-racism-and-religious-hate#

They haven't had time to vet candidates.

He got the job after just a Zoom interview with Tice.

Chestnut

I think anyone thinking of voting Labour should be aware that there are things going on behind the scenes that the public may not be aware of. Here for example we have Angela Rayner promising Muslim voters that if they vote for her then Labour will recognise Palestine. The video is very revealing, the desperate babbling and the reaction of those around her.
Angela Rayner appeals to Muslim voters

Yes I am aware of this, to collect the Muslim votes. If Hamas goes, maybe, but they have been declared a terrorist organisation, how can any Gov, only Left wing , Spain Norway Ireland, vote to give terrorists a stage.
Another good reason not to vote Labour.